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You could make the exact same silly argument about seat belts, crumple zones, and air bags, but the fact is all 3 save many lives.


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Can't that be seen as an argument against seatbelts and airbags as well?

I find your argument as both valid and invalid. Seat belts don't save everyone's lives therefore we shouldn't use them?

You joke but I've literally heard people make this argument about seat belts.

I think that this is the key argument fir the deaths caused. But, I was under the impression that the effectiveness of air bags compared to their hazards was coming into question in testing anyway. a seat belt saves many more lives than an airbag?

An improvement is an improvement. A flaw of seatbelts is that some people still die when they wear them. That's not a valid argument to not wear seatbelts.

Since 1975, seatbelts are credited with saving hundreds of thousands of lives. Try as I might, I can find zero deaths attributed to lacking AM radio in a car.

These two things are no where near alike. No one will take this line of argument seriously.


> It's not like these features are just thrown in for fun; there is research and testing behind them, and they do save lives.

Exactly, but some of them are designed to be paired with a seat belt - I've heard that airbags can make things worse if you don't buckle up.


> Air bags have saved more lives than safety belts, haven't they?

That depends on how you count: no life saved by an airbag would be saved without airbag AND safety belt. An airbag alone saves no lives.

And I still doubt the airbag+belt combination made a bigger dent in the statistic than the introduction of the safety belt did (Although it's hard to compare due to completely different time periods)


Ok, take away seat belt analogy.

How about air bags. Those are a better one.


How do seat belts and air bags and crumple zones work?

You can't get to a solution without accepting it. You can't stop people dying by describing that fact as toxic.

No it's not a, or the solution, you can't ignore I though.


And how frequent are those situations compared to those where people accelerate too quickly and lose control of their car? That's like the argument that seatbelts are dangerous or lethal in some situations. Sure they are. But in all other situations they save lives and reduce injuries.

The justification for wearing seatbelts is they save lives in a crash and yet fatal car crashes are common. Does this prove seatbelts don’t work?

And people can still get hurt in car accidents, so we should just get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones and dispense with the illusion of safety.

> Air bags have saved more lives than safety belts, haven't they

Not by a long shot - seat belts reduce the chance of death by 60-70% across all crashes. Airbags reduce the chance of death by 15% in frontal collisions, and very little for other types[1]. The airbag isn’t going to much good if you’ve been ejected from the car.

[1]:http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittPorter20...


If you could show that seat belts save lives, which I think you can, then that's kind of interesting. In any case, I meant the question to be rhetorical.

Seat belts and airbags don't save you in all cases, but we use them.

There are a lot of regulations you'd have to add up, but millions probably isn't an enormous stretch.

Crumple zones, seat belts, and air bags save tens of thousands a year (https://www.nhtsa.gov/seat-belts/seat-belts-save-lives).

The EPA estimates the Clean Air Act alone saved 100k/year. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171226105042.h...

Lead paint, workplace safety, FDA approval, product recalls, aviation safety... Hell, fighting the tobacco industry is a big regulatory move.


I guess you aren't familiar with the arguments people make against seatbelts. Arguments like "They kill more than they save" "If my car catches fire I want to be throw out of that car not trapped in it"

advertising the benefits of seatbelts has saved thousands of lives.
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