Several of us exited a toxic company semi-recently.

For what it's worth, it was common for people to take minor cuts to total compensation. The old, toxic company had evolved to pay well because it was the only way they could retain people (however briefly) through the obvious toxicity. We just didn't talk about it publicly much.

But it didn't matter. Huge quality of life improvement and I don't really miss the extra money.

I thought about this and tried it this past year. It didn't go well and my performance review was abysmal. Some of my colleagues hate my guts because they feel like they're doing all the work and I'm not.

For example, I never do overtime especially when it's to meet unrealistic arbitrary deadlines. But they do and we meet the deadline, and this is why we keep having those deadlines: management knows they can keep doing it and someone will roll over to make it happen. "attaboy, great job on giving your life away this week, thank you for the new Porsche"

How do you pull it off without your colleagues hating you?

Maybe your job(s).

But there are certainly companies out there that actually care about the welfare of their employees. Usually family owned and such.

That's where I choose to work and they have always taken care of my needs and listened to me.

I never really understood why people have such a desire to work for these big companies that don't care about you. I guess it's just different strokes...

So would I, but I've noticed that the only really reliable marker of how well you'll be treated is salary (compared to market average).

So it really only makes sense to chase the money.

It's almost always the employers that offer you concrete benefits, contractually enforced promises and cash that will end up taking care of you and treating you with respect anyway.

The companies that tout vague platitudes (good working environment, friendly coworkers, good work/life balance, no bullshit) above concrete benefits (pay, hours, holiday, free lunches) are usually the shittiest employers in that market.

I feel like this is true for every single large company I’ve ever worked for. Things always feel like they’re regressing from a high point. I have no idea why it it.

All of them had free coffee when I joined, and they’ve slowly removed the vending machines and just never replaced them.

It's not a perk if the ultimate effect, if not the intended effect, is that it keeps you at work 60 hours a week. There's something deeply insidious about plying your employees with free food and services and encouraging them to build their social circles entirely out of their co-workers. Who needs work-life balance if work is your life?

I had a conversation with a friend very recently about how our company handles counter offers.

"They don't believe in counter offers."

"Don't... don't believe in them? What's there to believe in?"

"That's what they say."

"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!"

"I dunno, it kinda makes sense to me."

"What?!"

"Well, the reasoning is if you're only there for the money, then why would they want you?"

"It's a JOB! Of course I'm there for the money. Otherwise I'd be doing it for fucking free! What if the money is the only thing keeping me from fucking leaving?!"

"Hm... yeah, that's a good point."

I don't know when or how one's passion became some sort of counterpoint to their compensation. Just because I love what I do doesn't mean I don't deserve more money. It means I'm lucky enough to be driven far beyond most, and endowed with a greater amount of ability, and thus a rare and valuable member of the team.

That's OK too, was just being specific for illustration. I don't really care the result, but I do enjoy caffeine. Haha. My point was just to follow on with the "I'm more comfortable at home because $X".

Example: I like soda. It is free in our cafeteria until 2:30 when they close. After that it is $1.80 in the machine for a bottle. Sure I can bring my own but come on.

> The fundamental problem with all this stuff is that employers simply do not give two shits about the happiness or comfort of their employees in the office, and are simply too stupid and shortsighted to see how this translates directly into both increased productivity and retention.

Pretty much.

A thousand times this. Very few of the lessons my parents taught me apply in the corporate world. Be honest and straight with people, assume good intent, take responsibility, etc.

All that behavior will do is paint you as naive. Sure there's room for honesty and responsibility, but only when used appropriately (strategically). Strikes me as acutely inhumane every time my career is rewarded for suppressing those behaviors.

I am not even allowed to tell a candidate (another human being that probably NEEDS a paycheck) why I didn't hire them and what they can do to improve their viability.

Just because the company has discarded this person it also means I must discard them as well? It kills me every time, but I NEED my paycheck more than I prefer to help my fellow human.

There is something wrong with taking a paycut to not do work that's not in your job description.

I wouldn't settle for this.

You learned that 1 company isn't a family company and puts your needs above the company...

When covid hit and work dried up where I work, the company told employees to go out and find charity work and the company paid our full salary to do the charity work.

Just one example of the way they think and act. I've been there 15 years and never seen a single instance or case that would make me believe they would act any other way.

They pay plenty fair and I make more than I know what to do with for myself.

My friends and I have no loyalty to our employers at this point. Big or small, we've all been burned. Some places are just less unpleasant than others. My bar is so low that as long as no one is screaming at me or threatening my coworkers I usually call that a good day. Getting out of retail helped.

Ya.... Maybe that plan won't work out now.

It's not I haven't felt similar about work.. but when they pay you and you stay there willingly maybe you should keep your frustration to yourself and a few close friends. And.. there may be something you don't know about what your bosses are doing. Ever think of that?

If you really feel the way you do and you want to warn people, quit, then do your rant. Don't continue to take their money while betraying them. To do otherwise is not good practice at all. Even if you are right.

I did this once back when working crap jobs. I knew I had leverage because the store was having issues hiring anyone to do the work so I utilize that leverage to try to negotiate a raise and control of my schedule.

Which I got… well sort of. The raise the the most pathetic I ever got, and I was told “that’s all the computer will let me give”.

Regardless though, I had successfully negotiated something, sadly it didn’t matter, despite slightly bumping my pay and gaining better control of my schedule, corporate came down with an idiotic merge and a plan to get rid of all full time employees that backfired, and they all left.

Suddenly, the manager begins to shift more and more responsibilities to us, to the point where I control what days I work but I am now working 12 hours nights because the only other people good at their job left.

After one night, I said fuck it and just abandoned the job, didn’t even give any notice, and I never felt particularly bad about it. Surprise, the genius moves pulled by corporate ended up pushing the company into bankruptcy.

This sums up my mid career crisis. I miss the jobs of my youth where I was just scheduled, showed up, did tasks, and left when scheduled. Of course, a flaw of memories like this is I mainly remember the good parts. When I really try, I remember things like lack of flexibility (working from home, leaving early to meet the plumber/doctor, etc) and honestly how difficult living on a low wage actually was and that was before all the responsibilities I’ve accumulated (family, homes, etc).

Also, I always found these jobs truly fun. The carefreeness of other employees and they types of characters you came across was eclectic and interesting. Corporate America does not allow of much of that and is fairly homogeneous even when diversified.

By remembering that we are some of the luckiest people on earth. We get paid obscene amounts of money to sit around in our underwear at home tapping out letters on a keyboard. The sweat, toil, and hard work of an entire family in some third world country generates only a tiny fraction of my compensation as a fat, entitled first world bourgeois that was born into the lottery ticket of a first world life and education. Never forget that.

>Maybe I'm naive, but it just seems that almost every job out there is about squeezing more profit out of people, and absolutely nothing else, and it doesn't really make me want to work.

Companies exist to make profit. You can play the game and win the prize, or you can call foul, take your ball, and go home. The choice is yours.

As an employee I can walk away from my job any time I want and just get another. If I had my own business that would be way harder.

Because of that I feel actually more free and independent as an employee. You just need to make sure to have a good financial buffer so that losing/switching a job won't hurt very much. Then your employer also can't pressure you too much.

That's basically what I am doing for exactly those reasons. But I don't think my jobs are crappy.

I traded stupid amount of money for more freedom to choose what I work on. I don't want to be a monkey on a keyboard nor do I want to put with the bureaucracy of a big corporation.

Or am I getting it terribly wrong? My brief view of a large organization terrified me and I don't want to work in such a place. Are big places really that much better if I am basically paid the same amount of money?

Sure, I know such people. The difference that these people won't write a psychopathic job ad, and they certainly won't expect me to work >40hours a week for below market salary.

If you believe work is family, do you think your family would be OK with you working 60 hours a week for below market salaries? Of course not! Your family doesn't want to screw you over while selling you shitty psychobabble. They'll actually pay you what you're worth and make sure you work reasonable hours.