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> I consider you the fork. Without hostility.

Nano has been part of the GNU Project since 2001, and Benno has been contributing to that project for years.



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> ...it was actually he who suggested Benno to fork GNU nano

I did not see any evidence for this in the discussions on the mailing list. Could you give some references?


> A private thread ensued between myself, GNU, and Benno, and what came out of that conversation was that Benno was not going to be allowed to become a maintainer of the project in GNU’s eyes.

This is the part I'm most curious about. Why didn't GNU let him become a maintainer?


> Nothing stopping you from forking the kernel, developing it yourself and calling it Sensetivlix: The GNUspeak conformity project.

Weirder things have happened


> Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line.

Just say "nano is Linus Torvald's editor of choice" (which is true and will instantly shut down the debate)


> I suppose it violates the Unix philosophy

It is GNU (GNU Is Not Unix), it is on purpose.

Seems a nice tool.


> You are free to fork it and maintain your own version

I’d leave that out. That’s unnecessary as it’s an implied freedom of oss, and it can come off as aggressive / dismissive.


> Off topic, but I enjoyed seeing the leaders of the various GNU projects listed in one place as signers of this letter. I don’t agree with them but it is good to see their names and projects listed.

Notice that for most of the big projects, it is not the leader name that appears on that list, but only a particular developer.


> Who are this developers you keep talking about?

People developing software. For example the gnome folks. You, me. (don't know about you, but I have services that use systemd for starting and supervising the service)

> If GNU/Linux closed its source and went proprietary, you would say exactly the same things: Fork or GTFO.

Yes, actually, yes. If Linus decided that all future development he wants to do is now closed source, I either have the option to fork and continue in the open or GTFO. I'm not the one to decide what he can to in his time. There's be a number of legal issues surrounding that, for example that he can't take the current kernel code, but if he decides that within the given framework he closes his development, fine with me. If Linus decides that he thinks that a deep integration between the kernel and systemd is the way forward for his project, I have to accept that. I may not like it, but unless I do something to change it I can't force it any other way.

The beauty of OSS is that you can exactly do that - take the last public version and make something better, something that's more the way you like it, no matter what the original owner thinks, says or does.


> What's the advantage of being a GNU project these days?

I can't think of anything.

> and in particular Richard Stallman's political opinions (e.g., eugenics)

Utter nonsense. Being part of GNU doesn't imply agreeing with every word Stallman utters on any topic.

> restricts your technical decision-making options

Very real (see gcc and frontend/backend separation) and a very good reason to stay away.


> though it has been superseded by X.org sometime around 2004 due to a license change from the MIT license to the 4-clause BSD license,

My understanding is that the scene for the fork had already been set by the time of the relatively late license change. I seem to recall reading at the time that the XFree86 core team was unhappy that a sole contributor was attempting to modernize the system by introducing extensions, without building consensus around them to their satisfaction.

So the license change was meant to prevent forks from merging in further work on XFree86.

Of course the fork was adding functionality everybody wanted. So the fork survived and upstream languished.


> Has Linus ever gotten bent out of shape at somebody for forking Linux

Nope. For forking Linux, changing the behaviour and then telling Linux to comply with it he has bitten several heads off though.


>There are still some important GNU projects though, GCC, GNU libc, and Grub being the most notable.

Except he's pissed off most of those people too.


> And stop forking OpenSSL; you’re just making things worse.

I strongly disagree that forks are making things worse. The solution to a project that is too difficult to fix due to baggage or a bad community or bad maintainers is to fork.


> That is called a fork

No that's not what I mean.

I mean more like GNOME which once was a GNU project and then left GNU to continue on their own. There are more examples like that. They don't need new manpower or inertia. They just drop GNU if they feel it keeps them back (which a lot of projects recently think, apparently, after the whole RMS drama some time back)


> And yet any attempt to do so is described by them as knifing Elm in the back.

Do you have an opinion on open source communities that threaten and seek vengeance against their own forks?


> The whole point is to essentially freeload off the money Red Hat is investing instead.

With bug for bug compatibility, that’s indeed an accusation that will linger.

A fork would arguably re-establish moral high ground.

I for one would enjoy a Debian stable alternative in the rpm/dnf eco-system.


> If you disagree with the kernel naming guidelines you are free to create your own fork. Good luck.

You do realise that cuts both ways. Why did some people raise this issue in the first place - according to your logic, they should have just forked it.

Silly arguments like this don't contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way.


> I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as non-GNU Linux, is in fact, Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux minus GNU.

> Then the Michael Niedermayer side took back control and the group that took over ffmpeg abdicated power over ffmpeg and its brand and moved to a fork.

Once again, no, it’s not what happened. A team forked but failed to gain significant traction and the original project is now the only one remaining.

The email you quote comes from just before the fork. Niedermayer was the main maintainer of ffmpeg and as stated there was disagreement between him and what became the libav developers about the possibility of adding new features while improving the code.

The libav team wanted to fully focus on code improvement and left in a very vocal and really obnoxious way. As anyone could have predicted history showed the they were wrong. It was completely possible to do both new features and code improvement at the same time.

Niedermayer resigned in 2015 because the way the fork was handled had made things painful for him which I fully respect.

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