> The discrepancy may be explainable simply by the police presence in the area.
I'd take it one step further:
I live in a medium to medium class neighborhood with a few lower priced apartments dotted throughout. One is actually next door to me. I had to call 911 last weekend when a bbq at the apt building next to me was close to violence. I listened through an open window as one calm male tried to disuade his friend from starting a fight as the latter ranted for 45 minutes in the street sometime after midnight. I heard male number one mention an open arrest warrant as an attempt to reason with male number two that violence was not going to end well. Male number two repeatedly dismissed this and periodically became hysterical with anger.
Between my initial call to 911 and the time when police arrived, I heard a new voice arrive, alerting the hostile guy that he (male number three) had called his cousin for backup and reminding everyone that his cousin is a Crip (a west coast gang, for those who are unfamiliar). I made a second 911 call to update the officers that the situation appeared to be escalating.
So, what I'm driving towards is the additional possibility that this type of behavior sticks out terribly in a quiet neighborhood where most residents have families and go to sleep by 10pm. The likelihood of someone notifying authorities is probably greater than in a high crime area because this is an extremely rare occurrence here.
Edit: yes, I live in a predominantly white neighborhood and the bbq attendees were all black, but that seemed less relevant until I remembered that someone is likely to ask.
> This is funny to me because someone I'm close to called the cops after an assault and they literally just talked down to her and left. What's been your experience with this?
Police behavior is highly regional and subjective, with a sprinkling of just plain randomness (bad day? good day? roll the dice, armed and privileged either way!)
> Outside of a city, good luck getting the police to come to your house. Where I used to live they would take at least 20 minutes and it wasn't particularly rural.
Even living in the city doesn't necessarily help. I once called the police because a guy was in my apartment complex looking for me with a gun. It took them 45 minutes to arrive, and this was in the city only a mile and a half from the nearest police station.
It was pretty clear to me after they arrived that since I lived in a bad neighborhood, they didn't want to deal with the situation. They figured they could wait, let whatever was going to happen happen, and then roll in and take statements.
Sorry to nitpick a single sentence out of your entire post, but where in the world do you live that has a response time like that? I wouldn't expect that kind of response time even if I lived next door to a police station. Hell I'd be doubtful of getting a response time like that if my spouse was an on-duty cop and was home when the attack occurred.
>Just ask black people you know, observe what happens on the street in a black neighborhood
Have you asked any white people who live in deprived neighbourhoods, or latinos? I can tell from first-hand experience that a lot of white people hate the police. No racism was involved though. It has more to do with gangs not wanting the police to interrupt their crimes, high crime in general in those areas, real danger to the police putting them on edge, etc.
> I can tell you that policing an inner city neighborhood exposes you to the worst society has to offer on a daily basis, and it can lead to police forming some ugly opinions
I think this is the key problem. Not racism. Blaming it on racism just causes further problems. I'm sure there is some racism, but it doesn't appear to be the main problem.
>BTW, you linked to a Washington Times article. That's a very different newspaper from the Washington Post.
Do you suppose maybe the officers' intent was to protect the person who called them?
I'm not happy this happened, and I think some blame can be put on the culture of police officers using violence as a solution to many problems, but I also think a lot of blame can be put on the culture of people-not-knowing-their-neighbors.
I would want to know more about my neighbors before calling the cops on them, even if they did some crazy thing like walk around the hallways naked or yell or scream.
> I'm sorry, but I don't see this as being a matter of "color".
I vehemently disagree. You know why? Because the cops actually showed UP to a burglary 911 call. Been shown multiple times that in an area of influence, the police are much more likely to show up than an area of poverty.
> No department is going to waste that degree of resources on a simply "burglary".
They sent 17-19 police officers, plus dogs. The only thing I think of off the top of my head that even warrants that much response is perhaps a street brawl? Or street racing? How many people did they honestly think was breaking into ONE apartment that 17-19 police officers showed up as a response?
> I think this author is looking to make this an issue of race when it simply was not.
Again, I disagree. Both officer and 911 caller both described the person doing the B&E as a Hispanic MALE, and they detained a Black FEMALE. I would assume as an adult, that one could at least tell the difference between a man and a woman, especially if that person is a police officer.
I don't think it's hard to predict that police will harass a black person in a white neighborhood if someone complains, and my guess is that it's not the first time it's happened in that particular neighborhood.
> In what sane world do the police seek out unfounded accusations on social media then act on them?
I would guess it's not the first time the police pulled a report from Nextdoor.
> In what sane world
I don't know, but if that's your premise, this particular world must be very confusing for you ... :)
>My comment was meant specifically to point out that even when trying to list reasonable times to call the police, the person only seemed to get 2/3 being times the police would actually help the situation in any sense.
Did the thought ever cross your mind that the police may be able to get security footage from a nearby storefront to identify the assailant or that they might be able to give you a ride home after you lost all of your money, identification, and phone? Or did you just assume police are mobile morons who serve no purpose other than to shoot and beat people?
> they'd most likely arrive shooting, as they do when there are parties in slums.
Can you please link to the news articles about these slum parties that are broken up by officers who start shooting the moment they arrive? Seems like something that would definitely get reported on.
In all my time living in low-income housing, I never witnessed something like this. And I had plenty of sleepless nights when neighbors would throw ragers. Some got broken up (mostly when a fight would break out among attendees), and I'm sure some of the cops weren't pleasant. But I never witnessed cops jumping out of their cars with their guns blazing.
Although I'm one piece of anecdotal evidence, so I'd like to see the evidence you have of this event.
> Have there been any documented cases of BLM indiscriminately attacking women or children? This seems weird to me.
Well, there was widespread rioting across more or less the entire nation. Also, while not direct violence by BLM agents, many metropolitan police forces have either introduced "reform" in direct support of BLM policy or have otherwise changed tactics to avoid getting bad press and riots in their own town. There is also the issue of officers getting fed up with these changes and leaving for more supportive locales.
In my city, I've had two different hood-rat road rage incidents this year, having only had one other incident 10+ years ago. In both cases drivers made high-speed dangerous maneuvers and then attempted to run me off the road and stick their firearms out the window. One yesterday morning, the other in February. In the former case, I provided a full description of the driver, vehicle, and plate number to 911 and they never even touched the case. I'm still waiting to hear back some 6 months later. I never bothered calling in the second incident.
Actions have consequences, and a less safe city is a result. Criminals, particularly Black criminals, are emboldened by these changes and the zeitgeist that will back them up no matter how much wrongdoing occurs. It's only natural for folks to look after themselves in the face of a faltering police force.
>If you suspect one of your neighbors is being abused, call the police and report it. Don't wait, don't hesitate.
Talk to your neighbors before you call the cops on them!!!!
If you see someone get physically abused then sure, you're witnessing a crime in progress, call the cops. If you're not then don't. It's wildly inappropriate to call the cops on a hunch.
If you think a neighbor is being abused but are not sure then just be their friend and communicate with them (you're neighbors, it's reasonable for you to have each other's phone numbers and email addresses) until you can discern whether or not you are correct. Cops are good at arresting people. They are not good at mediating. If they get called to a DV situation where they can't arrest someone they have a lot of potential to make things worse.
> We’re talking rape, burglary, murder, vandalism, and assault... Conversely, low-income neighborhoods have tons of hardcore crime like I’ve described.
Tons?
Rape seems an unnecessarily emotional grab here, since most rapes are perpetrated by someone the victim knows and aren't restricted by income.
Vandalism happens everywhere as well.
> It’s always the people in the white upper-class neighborhoods who think the police are the problem.
My mom grew up poor and told me to not trust the police and certainly not let them in the house without a warrant.
> ...because they celebrate...
Who is "they", in this context?
"Tons." "Always." "They." Your language suggests an agenda that you're presenting in absolutes.
> If you are on HN then you probably are White/Asian/Indian and middle class or above now, or in upbringing. You are less likely to mix with who have bad interactions with the police.
I'm actually a black man.
Those friends I was mentioning who have gone their entire lives without a poor interaction with the police?
Also black men. Worse yet, some of them are immigrant black men with accents.
Racism exists. Police corruption exists. It's a known issue, but its not so systemic that it affects all jurisdictions equally.
As I said, I believe its much better to look at your current locality and ask "can I trust my police?" rather than think about the situation as a national problem.
Now, you might say that I'm lucky, or that I have never broken the law so its a non-issue.
Let me tell you a story. Once, I and two of my friends were in a car smoking marijuana. The police, having heard recent burglaries in the area, were on the look out, and thought it particularly sketchy for a poorly maintained looking car to be parked inside such a good neighborhood. As they turned on their lights, one of my friends gets the bright idea that he should run---yes run from the police. He doesn't get very far, and we're all gathered together and the story comes out in torrid detail. We're sure we'll all go to prison, but the worst that happens is that we are driven to our parents' houses and given an unofficial warning.
That's it. No writes ups, no tickets. The worst part of that night (for me) was that our stash was confiscated.
This is the kind of story you'd expect to only happen to a white guy? Perhaps even a rich white guy, right?
Nope, it happened to 3 black guys who ended up going to university on scholarships.
This stuff isn't rare. Lot's of time, the police are reasonable but people's bias colors their view of it. One of my friends, who was in the car with me, used to say (when we were younger) that this night was an example of the cops unfairly brutalizing us because we were frisked and he was handcuffed initially---he's the one that ran. Yet if you look at it from another angle, we were the criminals caught in possession of drugs who got a slap on the wrist.
> There are a lot of useless arrests for minor crimes like jaywalking which makes the residents of these neighborhoods hostile to the police. (These arrests are driven by the debunked theory of broken window policing.) Simultaneously, there's not enough effort put into solving serious crimes like murder.
Slightly off context but I think that the solution to this is some kind of quota and or tier system to laws and policing. Basically to restrict the amount of policing that may be done for things like jaywalking and traffic violations while the violent crime rate is above a certain threshold.
I have been held at gun point twice in my life as part of armed robbery and hijacking and neither time did I even consider for a moment that the police would find the people who did it. But if I do 60 km/h in a 40 km/h zone they will follow me to the end of the earth to get me to pay them.
> when black people call the police, there's the non-zero chance that they're the ones who end up getting shot.
As an absolute number, more white people are shot by police than black. [1]
As a percentage of population, the rate is higher in the black population, however that's a very complex analysis when you break it down by homicides by region and the populations (many urban areas are majority black, or Hispanic).
> You've got to try to make things right.
Discrimination based on race doesn't strike me as a very good strategy for making things right. It seems to me like it will just foster increased racial tensions, resentment and problems without solving anything.
> In your doctrine, can you ask someone else for help with response to the violence?
Of course.
> Can that someone make his response not the same moment, but when he actually meets the guy who threatened you and yours?
Well, it would be kind of dumb if they responded to violence when the violence isn't even there.
> Because these two things seem rational, and cops are exactly what you get with them.
No, not even close. For one, police are not altruistic; they are doing a (government) job and earning a (government) paycheck. Second, as mentioned elsewhere, police do a whole hell of a lot more instigating violence against non-violent people than they do responding to violence with equal force.
>I suspect that's really just an emotional lashing-out at a pervasive problem.
It's not. It's my personal experience and was stated that way. I, unambiguously, have never once seen the police improve a situation. I've never even really heard about it happening.
It's good that it's happened to you - it probably makes you feel more secure in the place where you live.
>>The chance that police will escalate is highly unpredictable, though of course being a person of color adds considerably to that risk, as a fraudulent gun in the call will cause the police to hallucinate weapons with even greater frequency than usual.
Is there any actual evidence for this? People shouldn't throw around accusations of widespread racism so lightly.
I'd take it one step further:
I live in a medium to medium class neighborhood with a few lower priced apartments dotted throughout. One is actually next door to me. I had to call 911 last weekend when a bbq at the apt building next to me was close to violence. I listened through an open window as one calm male tried to disuade his friend from starting a fight as the latter ranted for 45 minutes in the street sometime after midnight. I heard male number one mention an open arrest warrant as an attempt to reason with male number two that violence was not going to end well. Male number two repeatedly dismissed this and periodically became hysterical with anger.
Between my initial call to 911 and the time when police arrived, I heard a new voice arrive, alerting the hostile guy that he (male number three) had called his cousin for backup and reminding everyone that his cousin is a Crip (a west coast gang, for those who are unfamiliar). I made a second 911 call to update the officers that the situation appeared to be escalating.
So, what I'm driving towards is the additional possibility that this type of behavior sticks out terribly in a quiet neighborhood where most residents have families and go to sleep by 10pm. The likelihood of someone notifying authorities is probably greater than in a high crime area because this is an extremely rare occurrence here.
Edit: yes, I live in a predominantly white neighborhood and the bbq attendees were all black, but that seemed less relevant until I remembered that someone is likely to ask.
reply