>Many said expanding a company in France can be hard because of stringent employment laws and the country's small market.
I'm not too sure on employment laws in France. For an entrepeneur Sarkozy has made some pretty good concessions as far as tax obligations. Probably not as good as what you could do get in the US, but better than what it was. Previously, to start a company you had to have the entire year's taxes paid up front, before you made a penny.
And you have access to the entire EC. So I don't know what small market is. Unless they mean french-speaking only. But even French companies know they can't rely on all of France to carry their market so much more is spent on localization of applications.
One weakness the french do have is an unwillingness to take risks and accept failures. Even in 2010 a lot of college grads are still looking for jobs with the state. But the entire system is stacked against them that way. My first apartment, I had to get a "caution" from my job. A guarantee that if I couldn't pay the rent the company would. For a small startup, this would be impossible unless all your employees came from rich families.
> 2. I'd argue that it'll take a long time to set up a company anywhere when you don't know the customs of the country. Of course, language is an additional barrier, but I'm pretty sure I'd manage to set up a startup quickier in France than in the US, just because I'm French. Same for you in your own country. Big deal.
> I don't know a single french entrepeneur that doesn't think about leaving the country if its start up starts to become successful.
In that case, why don't they start their companies abroad from the start? basically, they want to enjoy the security offered by their country in case of failure, but they don't want to pay their share in case of success.
> French like big, safe, and conservative structures
What's wrong with that? many elite graduates (not only in France) choose to work for big corporations that provide great benefits and little risk. It seems to be a rationale choice.
> Compared to the UK and USA, France is a safer place to create your startup right now if you are a foreigner.
In what way? You can't raise as much money. Your market is smaller, bureacracy is more (just to compare it costs £12 to make a company in the UK vs EUR 180 at a minimum in France), taxes are less in the UK & US, access to cloud computing is less available locally in France. You can get a visa in the UK and US too.. heck Australia too it's not as if France is special here. In fact on business terms, you're heavily disadvantaged in France.
> You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long.
Living in France for 8 years and creating 2 companies doesn't seem to count, eh? Now I have my companies elsewhere in Europe and just pay my taxes on the revenues in France, only not to deal with the bureaucratic overhead.
> If France is so bad, move out.
The chauvinism is strong in this one. I'm in France, because I like things here. But startup culture isn't one of them. Why take criticism of a country's policy personally?
If you love your country try to fix it, don't suggest people who complain to leave.
I think what the GP tried to say is that France is not the easiest environment to launch a startup. Labor laws, taxes etc. make it one of the less desirable places in Europe to start a company.
One really needs an imperative reason to move a business from the UK to France considering how much more business-friendly and, well, sensible, the UK is.
>I think the biggest challenge for France in regard to startup is that society is hierarchical
Agreed. At this point, I usually like to point out that hierarchical societies have their advantages. A huge asset for France is it's elite schools -- the "Grandes Écoles".
These schools are outstanding in a way that few Americans can even fathom, and their students are educated to a point that I didn't think possible until moving to Paris.
If you want the best engineers in the world, hire out of those schools. As a bonus, they aren't the sort to hop between jobs.
> Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement?
Also, those large tech companies can sell to French customers because French customers have money to buy from them. And the reason they have that money is largely due to the country/society/legal system/welfare/medical/etc. This is a "access to market" tax and it makes perfect sense.
> France is a country where failure is a taboo. People see it as unwise to start anything and will try to discourage you.
Maybe part of the reason there is no "Silicon Valley" of Europe is cultural? This attitude will have a chilling effect on anything that requires risk...
Having lived in France for four years trying to start a company, I can say, without question, this would be the worst idea for anyone who is serious about starting a company.
Most french LEAVE france because of how byzantine and insane the laws are towards companies (let alone startups).
> when you create a company, you have to pay a separate fee (~200eur) to a private "official journal" to publish the fact that you're creating a company.
Irrelevant, it's a ridiculous amount compared to other costs involved in starting a company.
> just check out the ENS's Nobel prize / admissions ratio
This doesn't tell anything about the French education system.
> Most of the brilliant French minds go to work in other countries where it's possible to create and operate a company.
A lot of brillant minds don't have any interest in creating a company. Besides, the world is a big place with many opportunities. Nowadays it's easy to travel and work abroad. A lot of people, brillant or not, leave their country out of curiosity.
As any places, France has good and bad things. Usually, we understand what we miss after living a few years abroad.
The main problem with France is the employment laws. Start-ups in other countries don't have this problem to the same extent. The secondary problem is that there is a lot of capital floating around in France with 'strings attached', great to get you going, but a huge problem later on.
This will be interesting to follow. France is a great place, but needs to work with their rules around taxes and social obligations from employer to employee. It is too scary to be an entrepreneur in France and there is a lot of overhead. I hope they find a good model for startups since the country needs that energy and has the talent.
"Welcome to France, entrepreneurs! It's a wonderful place to do business in, what with the lax regulation and light bureaucracy and all. Oh, and far be it from our economy to be drowning in taxes. Very far.
But don't you fucking DARE to become 'rich', you bastard! -If you earn more than our socialist overlords deem appropriate, we'll just confiscate 75% of the 'excess'. Fuck you, slave. But, you know.. welcome."
> Nobody in New York ask him to pay 20,000 usd to the city for the privilege of opening business.
Nobody ask for that in Europe either, unless you're interested in heavily regulated industries like energy or banking (and they ask for more than $20,000). But we're talking about small businesses, right?
I don't know if fashion industry is heavily regulated in Paris, but a 15,000-euro fee to the government sounds like a big stretch. They used to require 7,500 euro of starting capital for SARL (a private limited liability company), but it was still your money, not the government's. But it's irrelevant, because the minimum amount changed and it's 1 euro now.
There's still an issue of paying various legal and professional fees before you can start your company. It depends on your needs and type of the company, but according to Doing Business report by the World Bank [1] this cost (represented as a percentage of the country's income per capita; not ideal but good enough) is lower in France and dozen of other European countries than in the United States.
I'm not too sure on employment laws in France. For an entrepeneur Sarkozy has made some pretty good concessions as far as tax obligations. Probably not as good as what you could do get in the US, but better than what it was. Previously, to start a company you had to have the entire year's taxes paid up front, before you made a penny.
And you have access to the entire EC. So I don't know what small market is. Unless they mean french-speaking only. But even French companies know they can't rely on all of France to carry their market so much more is spent on localization of applications.
One weakness the french do have is an unwillingness to take risks and accept failures. Even in 2010 a lot of college grads are still looking for jobs with the state. But the entire system is stacked against them that way. My first apartment, I had to get a "caution" from my job. A guarantee that if I couldn't pay the rent the company would. For a small startup, this would be impossible unless all your employees came from rich families.
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