I don't care. And I didn't mean this to be a personal attack. Maybe you didn't mean it to come across the way I read it. Maybe you don't feel smugly superior to people who drink. But as written, your message came across (to me, and I'm guessing to those who upvoted me) the way I presented it.

At the very least, you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink as being primarily driven by peer pressure and a desire to conform. And your "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best, and as chasing evidence in support of your preconceived notions at worst.

Given that, are you really so surprised that people took umbrage?

Well, I can only say that drinking is a lot of fun. It probably provided me some of the best times of my life. Now, fun, happiness, pleasure, joy, are really hard to quantify and compare. In retrospective, I am under the strong impression that my life would be less fun, pleasurable and less joyful without it, though I might be just as happy (or maybe a little bit less, but still quite happy).

Some people fall pray to it from addiction, others seek its pleasures too much and end up with collateral health issues or in accidents due to impairment. I never suffered from it, so it was really just all good fun.

So ya, it's fun. That's all.

P.S.: The fun is partly due to the effects, but also a lot of it is due to the social interactions it creates, as well as being able to get into mixology and craft beers, spirits and all that and geek out on it.

Just to play devil's advocate, I would argue that if I am required or at least expected to interact socially with you, your alcohol consumption effects me whether I am drinking or not. In the same vein but to a much lesser degree as you smoking a cigarette, or a blunt, or a vape pen.

People no. You, yes. Please don't speak for other people.

> you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink

I do? I offered my OPINION on why I believe people drink. What qualifies me to give such an opinion?

10+ years as a bartender (from dive bars to high-end restaurants - the last being Spiaggia in Chicago). During that time, I continued to further my understanding of why people drink. Asking clients and gaining deeper knowledge. Let me ask you...why did you start drinking? Yes, you can point out that after high school...blah, blah, blah. I am not speaking to the fact that those have a choice once they reach an age where they are less pressured into doing things they have less control over at a younger age. You seemed to have completely missed the point of the article and my commenting an experience where peer pressure has not affected me.

So yes, I would say I am qualified to make statements not only about my personal experiences (those of which NEVER supported a position for or against drinking). You seemed to have done that for me.

> "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best

Misguided at best? You are grasping at straws now.

> preconceived notions at worst

At worst? Let's put this into context.

Whether or not I develop an opinion before or after an experiment doesn't predict the outcome of that experiment. That is like saying because I heard about how bad heroin was growing up and tried it then...what exactly? What are you trying to say exactly? Because as far as I can tell, you are saying a whole lot without actually saying anything.

Yes. There is a related issue, which is that a lot of people just can't accept that something they like is actually detrimental. Since I've never drank, I never experienced this specific kind of cognitive dissonance (if you can even call it that), but I've seen in so many people, it's depressing. There are some things that I love despite knowing that they are bad for your health (like certain unhealhty foods), but I would hate to deceive myself about it (knowing that they are bad allows me to manage the risks, like being aware that I should reduce consumption if I'm indulging too much). But a lot of people have the exact opposite attitude. Which is curious, because the damages are some times very obvious.

My point of view? Gee. A lot of assumptions there. Sounds like you think you know all about me. Hmm no, I don't assume drinking alcohol===drinking problem. It sounded like the guy you replied to first maybe did. Maybe you thought we're the same person? I didn't say anything about "proof".

Ahhh yes, you have confused me with the first guy. That explains some of your "so entrenched" language. You're mostly talking about what the first guy said, I'll let you take it up with him.

ps Counting the days since you last had a drink doesn't make me feel I was wrong. Good luck with that! I've had alcoholism ruin a couple of friends lives, it's such a terrible thing, so hard to do anything about.

People don't care as much if/what others drink as you think.

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-X2zPMB5dk

I never drank aside from a few sips in past attempts to placate people bothering me about drinking. I used to be more annoyed by people who seem to really want to know why, but I've found that simply being firm about not drinking is usually enough to get people to drop the subject. I don't usually give a reason, as that seems to be an invitation for others to harass you. I also will refuse to even sip an alcoholic beverage for the same reason.

Some people seem to take the fact that you don't drink as personally offensive, as if you are judging others for drinking. But I really don't care that much about how much you drink any more than I care about how much ketchup you put on your fries. That is, I don't care much at all unless you're using obviously too much. The view that non-drinkers are judgmental seems to be caused by a combination of psychological projection and the drinker having mixed feelings about alcohol.

If I had to give a reason, it would be something like this: I never was convinced of any benefit from drinking, but I can see many risks. The main benefit to me is that many drinkers will socially exclude non-drinkers, but I think a better solution is to avoid people who don't like non-drinkers.

The reasons I've heard from people about why they drink or want to encourage me to drink vary a lot. One that comes to mind is "I want you to be happy", which don't find convincing because I am perfectly happy and don't think drinking would improve my happiness. The people who insist that I just haven't tried the right drink are getting tiring. If you didn't like ketchup and I said that you haven't tried the right ketchup and then insisted that you try small amounts of a half dozen ketchups, that would be considered fairly weird. But it happens to non-drinkers.

That's not what I got from the article. It seemed to me to say that alcohol could be used to get to know one's self better. Truly getting to know one's self isn't always safe. Nothing risked, nothing gained.

Oh come on. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. Lots of people choose not to. As someone who drinks it a lot, it's not required or necessary to live or work, unlike other substances I consume (coffee, Archer Daniels Midland, Costco).

In fact, alcohol is probably a detriment to my livelihood if anything.

Its a bit of a strange state of affairs when a sober person announces that fact to people who drink. There's actually a great cracked article that explores this dynamic (I'll post this and then edit with the link if I can find it). When someone who drinks is told by someone who doesn't that they don't drink, they have a hard time not perceiving it as dig against them for drinking, or a 'holier than thou' kind of statement.

Given the prevalence of drinking in society, its easier to explore the concept in regard to marijuana. I can't even count the number of times I've said something along the lines of "you've never smoked? come smoke a bowl?". When the culture you're a part of has the idea that everyone is going to do it some time, with some sort of frequency (be it very very low or every night) hearing people against it completely is is a bit... odd to deal with. Its like finding out the person you're hanging with has completely opposite political views as you. Even if you're both OK with it and want to move onto a new topic of discussion, its awkward.

edit http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-things-you-dont-realize-about-...

I like that your response to a comment that boils down to “Just buy what you like” is to (in so many words) accuse the GP of being a nihilist alcoholic. Please do go on about the “objectively terrible beverage” that you keep a case of in your living room though

As someone who never drank until I was 25, I can see your point. However, the negative thoughts people have about "don't rock the boat for being different" have never resonated with me.

I think the whole idea that everyone should always care about everyone else's feelings has gone way too far. I sometimes eat red meat, I enjoy good beer, I don't smoke or do any drugs. We can still be friends whether you agree, or disagree, with any or all of those points. If you don't think so, that's your problem.

Could I ask what you actually like about it? I used to be a moderate drinker but a few years ago I just thought "what's the point?". The only reason why I drank was because my friends drank, and nearly all the times I met my friends was to drink.

Since then I've moved to a different city for work, and I've made new friends with mostly people who don't drink. Yesterday we went to a lake to swim and chill out, which I couldn't even dream about doing with my old friends.

A lot of people who I've spoken to who like to drink say it helps their stress levels. In my case I've always been quite a stressful person, and I haven't noticed it get worse since I've stopped. Not having woken up hung over for over 2 years is good though :D

As for the supposed health benefits of drinking, I think in my case I'm better off not drinking. A few times I got blind drunk, but even being tipsy I would be concerned about accidentally walking in front of a car or slipping onto a railway track.

so you attack the person when you have nothing to say, eh? and no, we don't know, hence the discussion. contribute or move along.

I used not to be a drinker (not total teetotaler, but would never drink when out) well into my 30s. Now I do drink.

I much prefer drinking.

I do think that "alcohol culture" means different things to different people in different places and at different ages. To generalize massively, I don't think much of the stereotypical way way 19yos from the UK drink when in Ibiza.

But I do enjoy 4 or 5 cocktails or whiskys in a good bar (which for me isn't one with loud music incidentally) with good company.

None of these are the reason most people drink. They would all be bad reasons to drink. You are saying we drink for bad reasons. You make a caricature of drinking (all the booze in the house) and say that's why you know better. The gist is that you missed the target on why others do something, and imply that you, scientifically, are wiser for it (you're drinks not only taste better than ours, they don't make you lose your inhibitions!).

No, I'm just wishing that you never wrote your words. Your reply had the feel of pure pedantry. Yes, you can take my short statement totally out of context—which was a discussion of an American problem—and superficially nitpick it if you like, comparing to China or whatever, but what's the point? What have we gained thereby? You get to win some internet brownie points by saying, "Well actually..."

In America, alcohol prohibition failed. I am aware that in some other countries around the world, the government does some nasty things to you if you drink, and thus there's a lot less drinking there. But we wouldn't stand for that here. Alcohol isn't against our religion, it is our religion.

I don't drink, at all, ever. I came to the conclusion quite some time ago that it's been the cause of far more problems than it's ever solved, and it's just better for everyone if I never pick up a glass again.

That said, I know plenty of people who somehow do have that chip installed that allows responsible drinking, in moderation, in appropriate settings - and I would never be so judgemental as your quote. There do exist plenty of people who can drink in moderation and without any real negative consequences. Who am I to begrudge or look down on that, and indeed who are you to?

There's certainly a lot of people for whom alcohol consumption, knowing all the facts, would indeed be "weak, immature, and reckless". Knowing myself and my history, that list includes me! But there's plenty of people not on that list, and so I just don't think you can make blanket judgements like that.