Tread carefully; while I suspect most of Europe doesn't care too much about Trump, the media and rest of the left wing in the UK labelled anyone pro-Brexit as ultra-right wing / neo Nazi types - they're still being called uneducated and racist by presenters on TV as I'm typing this.
Then the vote for Brexit won a majority. They're not all scum at the extreme end of a political spectrum.
If France goes down the same naive, name-calling route Le Pen will surely be next to capitalise on it.
It didn't stop Brexit however. Europe might get nasty at some point, if we think of all the far-right posturing and their recent successes. These people are dangerous.
I'm not stretching anything. If you want to talk about Brexit, the majority voted out, that is all what matters.
There is nothing "alternative" about my facts.
France will be next. Good luck telling the vast majority of the native population (because they are going to to be the ones voting for Le Pen) is racist. Your words have no meaning. Poland, eastern Europe doesn't want mass immigration from Muslims countries either. Look at what is happening it Czech Republic, Slovakia. The whole EU deal reminds them too much Soviet Union. The last "liberal" people are mass media, journalists, and Silicon Valley bubble that ignores what is happening around other people.
The thing that bothers me both about Brexit and Trump is that the mainstream narrative is that it's about closed borders, racism, misogyny, etc.
There is no evidence to suggest that the largest proportion of the voters for these things were motivated by that. One side loses, then they scream racist/bigot at the other side and then because it's the mainstream media those labels stick around. That does not help anyone and does indeed only widen the divide.
The battle lines have shifted. It's now nationalism vs. globalism, not conservative vs. liberal. It turns out that the elite, while split between conservatism and liberalism, is firmly in the globalist camp. The people tend to go the other way, especially once the hollow veneer of political correctness is shattered (terrorist attacks, migrant crises, and economic downturns can do that).
You're seeing it in Britain, where Brexit crossed party lines. The people were told they couldn't have a say on immigration or many other aspects of their lives. Britain's cultural identity, their nationhood, would just have to give way over time to a pan-European globalized society. They were told that high-minded technocrats in Brussels, not the British nation, should run their country. It turns out that the common people don't like that deal.
You're seeing it in America. Trump is not running on a policy platform. He's signed up to enough conservative pieties to get the Republican Party behind him, but his whole campaign is really premised on kicking out the ruling elite and restoring government for the interests of the American people, not the establishment and their globalist agenda. Regardless of whether you agree that his policies will accomplish that, there's no denying that that's the core sentiment that he's tapping into. This is the quote that seems to be extremely popular among his supporters: "We will no longer surrender this country or its people to the false song of globalism. The nation-state remains the true foundation for happiness and harmony. I am skeptical of international unions that tie us up and bring America down."
You're seeing it in continental Europe, with nationalist parties pulling supporters from both the establishment conservative and left-wing parties. Marine Le Pen's National Front has a very good chance of winning the election in France next year. Her platform isn't right-wing or left-wing, it's nationalist and seeks to preserve the culture of the French nation, including their social and economic model.
Alternative for Germany (AfD) is gaining rapidly in reaction to the disastrous decision to allow migrants to flood into Germany. They have benefit in the polls at the expense of both the main left and right parties.
The supporters of these movements are unified in one thing: a love for and desire to preserve their nation's culture and values, which they perceive to be under siege from uncontrolled immigration and globalization.
The vast majority of people who voted for Brexit are not racist like the vast majority of people who vote for Le Pen are not racist.
I find our reply reductionist and offensive. It illustrates what I was alluding to: they is not attempt to understand the concerns of millions who are just brushed off as 'far right', 'racists', 'uneducated', etc, which only make things worse and can backfire (see Brexit)
The debate on key issues has been poisoned. For instance, people are either pro-immigration or they are racist. This is not healthy.
I have had the unusual pleasure of being amongst two distinct groups of people over the last few months.
Firstly, a group of businessowners. 'local' businesses though most have strong ties to the local port or northern regions of France. Pre-brexit they were mostly close mouthed on the issue, though personal conversations indicated a lean to leave. Post brexit they are generally quite happy; their foreign affairs are relatively easy to keep in order and they have just gained leverage on the local stage.
The other group is composed of PhD students and their professors. I'm a casual aquaintance to these people, mainly on the student end, and have dropped in for lunch a few times (and after work pints). These guys are all anti brexit. I know from the way they make up stories about why people voted out and then insult them - its quite unpleasant. From what I gather very little of their funding comes from the EU, but I'm not familliar enough with their funding system to judge them on it.
It seems we have a shit ton of echo chambers in this country.
Part of the UK have been very badly hit by globalism - which arguably was one of the major factors in the Brexit vote. Similarly, the support for National Front in France was, as far as I understand it, largely in areas where there have been steep downturns in traditional industries.
Edit: I was a Remain voter - but I can completely why so many people were angry and wanted a protest vote. Just that I don't think the EU really caused many of the problems people were complaining about so that coming out of the EU is unlikely to actually resolve this issues.
Honestly since brexit I've been constantly amazed how little Brits and Americans understand continental Europe's opinion on the EU.
On the continent euro-sceptics operate on the extreme political fringe, they never got into any parliament in numbers and are considered toxic as coalition partners.
The EU won't blow apart, the EU is a fact of life and an economic necessity, Brexit was so shocking because it is indeed unbelievable that anyone would try to quit the EU.
One should be careful about extrapolating a trend from two disparate data points.
Trump and Brexit have one major thing in common: they relied on surprisingly high turnout from white working class men for ostensibly right wing causes after a lot of anti-Establishment and anti-immigrant rhetoric.
They have a lot not in common, like pro-Brexit voters very strongly disapproving of Trump, Brexit being a popular political cause for over twenty years backed by a vast majority of the mainstream press which actually picked up momentum because Establishment and liberal free trade figures came out in favour of it, the demographics for Brexit voters being heavily skewed towards older people[1] in a way that Trump votes almost certainly weren't, and Trump evidently picking up a lot of "the incumbent party haven't done anything for us; let's vote for change" votes that aren't really related to the appeal of his wall or birther remarks to ex-Obama voters living in Mexican-free areas of Michigan. Trump's "Make American Great" again spiel might well resonate more with an unemployed ex-factory worker than a broadsheet article extolling the virtues of comparative advantage, but it certainly isn't the sort of practical protectionist plan he needs to deliver a permanently change the status quo position on globalisation, and his new supporters aren't going to stick around if he doesn't deliver something.
It's also clear that other relatively recent major Anglosphere elections haven't been a major success for the radical right.
[1]that campaign certainly wasn't won on subreddits
Lots of eurosceptic parties toned down their euroscepticism after Brexit (predictably) turned out to be a disaster. Front National in France is one of the most notable examples.
This is the attitude which caught the remain campaign flat-footed - the sense that what we traditionally believed about the UK can't change. We want to snuggle up in our blankets and think nothing can go wrong. But this referendum had legal force and won by a large margin, which is how things do change.
Legal aspects aside, this referendum was also a shot across the bow to foreigners. To have such a large majority expressing such a strong disdain should give pause to anyone considering immigration, because it is unpleasant and even dangerous to have neighbors who think of you like this. Seeing as Trump has made his campaign a referendum on immigration, it will be the same in the US if Trump is elected with a similar majority.
I definitely would not say that everyone who voted to leave the EU is a bigot, but it's fairly undeniable that a lot of bigots supported (and ran campaigns around) leaving the EU...
As a fellow American, that sounds like you need to reconsider your news sources. Brexit was driven by propaganda, not some principled opposition to intractable problems. The “EUrocrats gone wild” stories are popular in certain circles but there’s an entire cottage industry debunking them:
Most of you (HN commentators) were bashing Britons when they decided to leave the EU (which policies they don't like), calling them backwards, xenophobic, etc.
And now you want to do the same. And perceive it as 'progressive'.
Moreover:
1. EU had been imposing unpopular polices over Britons for years. Trump administration hasn't introduced any policy yet, moreover, it hasn't formed yet.
2. Trump and Pence were _elected_ in a direct democratic elections. European Commission president and all commissioners are being _appointed_ by ruling elites.
In future political science textbooks this will serve as a prominent example of the phenomenon named 'liberal hypocrisy'.
For those of you outside the UK, please realise that this was not a xenophobic vote. Just because there were racist scum in the crowd voting brexit, doesn't mean all brexit supporters are likewise.
There are many reasons why people voted to leave but the journalism covering this seemed to only be able to cover the sensationalist parts of the debate in the most childish fashion. This needed a serious discussion amongst adults, with a lot of thought and we didn't get it.
So if it wasn't some racist backlash to immigration, then what was it? While I can't speak for all, here is a piece that explains many of the issues that people actually have with Europe, delivered in the serious manner that I wish more of the debate had been.
Then the vote for Brexit won a majority. They're not all scum at the extreme end of a political spectrum.
If France goes down the same naive, name-calling route Le Pen will surely be next to capitalise on it.
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