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That is a good deal of my point.

Along with the children left behind no longer getting to interact with adults who are in the more successful category, losing an entire set of role models to aspire to. How many children have benefited from their friends' parents providing excellent role models and life advice? Allowing the privileged to separate themselves into private gardens removes part of the ladder to pull yourself up by. And, along with that, it limits the mixing of the SES/racial categories, which further inhibits compassion, as you won't have grown up next to them.

A key example of the effect this category of isolation leads to is Romney's remark in 2012[1]: "... middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less...". Had Romney more experience (or even familiar with the vital statistics), he would never had said such an profoundly ignorant remark.

[1]https://www.yahoo.com/news/romney-middle-income-200k-250k-15...



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A lot of people live in a bubble where the only people they know where those who they went to (expensive private) college and (wealthy suburban) high school with. At that point you literally never get to come in contact with people not as fortunate as yourself. You get to believe that everyone had the same opportunities that you had, and that those who are earning less are just lazy or entitled. I'm not accusing the parent of that, just bringing some perspective to the debate.

I disagree with that assessment. You are, in my opinion, being overly reductive.

The author is recognizing that there is a power disparity between different income brackets, and that power disparity is used to limit upward mobility. No wealthy family wants their children to be less successful than they were, and they can invest much more time and resources into ensuring their children are successful than the bracket below them.

This is at odds with the 'American Dream' that's sold to many of us -- that this is a country of limitless economic mobility if you just put in the elbow grease.


"opportunity hoarding"

>That includes everything from legacy college admissions to unpaid internships that

>let affluent parents rig the game a little more in their children's favor.

Why does the author imply something sinister with economic division? I want my kid to succeed, so I fight for his chance to succeed. I have high end skills to offer, first in line to learn from me? My children.

This isn't deliberate exclusion of everyone unprivileged, it's hyper-inclusion of only the ones I love the most.


Isn't that the entire conclusion of the article? That separating kids out hurts the average, meaning more kids are worse off than better?

> but IMO most of them have to do with "momentum". If you grow up in a wealthy family, you've got easy access to great education, mentors, role models, capital, etc. If you grow up in a poor family you have way less of all of this

If this is the issue, why are we targeting certain races rather than all those whose family is lacking momentum?


So basically you are saying that poor kids have no "potential to succeed" and should be kept segregated?

Yes, a bit.

I learned how wealthy, privileged, and protected even 100k is when we pulled our kids from a Catholic elementary school and moved them to an integrated urban magnet school (median income $35k). Suddenly we had some classmates who couldn't properly afford food, school clothes, and field trips. Not just one or two families, but many nice, hard-working families with smart kids. Just -- wow -- middle-class us -- we were suddenly rich, and I'd never really known it before.

My eldest will perpetuate her privilege and attend an Ivy in the fall. Her classmates, with exactly the same talent, education, hard work, and academic achievement will not, despite the availability of financial aid. Their families just didn't know how to micro-manage the application process, they couldn't afford extra-curricular enrichment, and some had other issues at home like immigration status or family health problems. Edit: and legacy preference; I am an alumn.

While I don't think it's malicious intent that "keeps low-income people from achieving what we've accomplished," there are definitely structural elements that do. I'm sure the existing system of financial games, housing, zoning, and education could be rearranged to help them much more.


I took a look at the program, and it seems well intended and effective (at least from the web copy). I certainly and happily took similar help throughout my childhood: housing, food, clothing, education, health care, etc. and, I'm happy to now be able to support those types of programs.

But, these types of programs supply the minimum requirements for a poor kid to be accepted to the party. For them to excel, they need integration. For instance, I owe a significant portion of my success to the various middle class connections that I've had along the way. Having friends in the middle class, and especially, having those friend's parents act as guides and mentors was incredibly helpful, looking back.

Now living in one of the richest counties in the US, I see a big risk in having this income segregation. Poor kids need to have an environment where they may learn the middle class ways. And, they can't do it easily by living only among the poor.


So... kids from affluent backgrounds have been given better oppotunities than the have-nots. I'm shocked!

That's kind of what happens when you teach a group of people that hard work and honesty results in impoverished second class citizenship, generation after generation, until there are few successful role models in a community much less parents who can pass those values on to their kids.

> How can it so effectively continue to fail to provide social mobility at scale?

School funding comes from property taxes, so the wealthier the area, the better the schools. Schools also do not address the myriad of other issues that arise from what class a child is born into in the US.

Wealthy parents can afford childcare, or to stay home with the child, and can afford tutors if their kids have trouble in school, etc. Wealthy parents can afford to pay for their children's college education, give their kids' good credit by making them authorized users of the parents' credit cards before they're 18, pay their rent or buy them homes, and pay their bills or give them money should they decide to start their own businesses, make investments, or pursue new careers or the arts.

Poor parents aren't at home to send their kids to school in the morning or to be there when they get back because they're working, and they can't afford tutors if their kids are struggling. Kids often have to work jobs in high school and give the money they earn to their parents to pay for housing and expenses, and they are on their own when it comes to college, moving out, or pursuing a career. Even when they're out of the house, they may still have to help financially support their parents, siblings and extended family.

There are also the issues of food and housing insecurity that stem from poverty, and they have an impact on children's ability to learn, cope and move up from their station in life.


Indeed. There’s little precedence for the children of the wealthy and privileged to cause future social problems.

Well, you get smart kids who actually earned their spot connected to the rich kids with money. The first group isn't as privileged as the second group. This certainly isn't the best system, but if it was removed, would something better naturally emerge, or would we just further reduce social mobility without any benefit?

/realpolitik


I'll argue the other way, even if the parents are social butterflies, they end up socializing with people who belong to the same income strata. I live is a HCOL suburb in the San Jose bay area, and even here, 20% of kids are from low-income families.All races and ethnicities are represented.

Parents are always the problem, that's the problem :)

Disadvantaged families have a hard time providing the nurture their kids need to overcome the gap. This is an incredibly self-reinforcing cycle, because the more help these kids get the more help other kids get too, so the gal remains.

Social status, including all the things from home ownership, how green is your lawn, how big is your investment account to extracurricular activities for admissions (and credentialism) in general - but also the larger labor market too - are all close to zero sum locally. And mobility for disadvantaged groups is ridiculously low, because - again - things like status preserving structures like zoning regulations, school districts, etc.


So you advocate mandatory public education? In fact mandatory boarding public education? -- I can think of no other way to avoid intellectual segregation as surely their are more 'gifted' children in Berkeley than Compton.

So much for the land of the free...

To the point: you are arguing that segregating students by capability increases income inequality - which is false to disingenuous over generations.


Yes, the social mobility of Americans is almost non existent. One thing I noticed when I lived there is that even people at the bottom and in the middle thought that it was a meritocracy because 1) smart people who 2) studied really hard get into one of the great colleges, get the good jobs and become powerful and wealthy.

The paper that the article is about shows that your chances of going to a great college are 117 times higher if your parents are top 0.1 percent than if your parents are in the bottom quintile. So little Zach who's dad packs parcels for Amazon doesn't even have 1 percent of the chance of getting into Princeton as Matt who's father heads a team working on the Amazon Web Services. Not even 1 percent.

And apart from that I never understood why a genetic advantage like being born smart is less unfair than other birth rights or whether success in life depending on making the right choices when you are a teenager should be much more of a meritocracy. Almost no kid makes those right choices - to study the right things hard, do extracurricular activities etc - without a supporting parent enabling it.

And when there seem to be no fair meritocracy it's so much worse that the wealth distribution is skewed beyond anything.


I think modern over-parenting by high income / HCOL area / high status couples takes sort of the worst of these approaches and produces a lot of precocious, stressed out, cardboard cutout, downwardly mobile youth.

I suppose in olden days of yore, labor was cheaper so people could afford some of the 1-1 instruction/tutoring/etc from the article.

Nowadays, the more common approach is to hustle/coach your kid so they get into highly selective K-12 programs, and/or pay up for the highly selective private school flavor. You then put your kids in the same dozen or so box-ticking exercise extracurriculars that all your social group are doing to their kids.

Little league baseball? LOL, that's for the poors. My kid does fencing. Camp? Sorry that's below my kid, he/she does summers abroad at Oxford. Summer job when they turn 16? My kid doesn't need the minimum wage cash, anyway they are staying with our friends in DC to volunteer at HQ of an NGO this summer.

By 17 you have a kid capable of scoring 1500+ on SATs, with a deep resume, and no ability to handle adversity.

The real shock comes when they are up against 100,000 similarly coached kids. The kids end up only getting into colleges at best as selective as their parents, and quite often less so. Most of these kids are also so busy on their all-rounder resume building for 17 years, they have no career aspirations or idea what to do for a living..


I'd say hes giving a lesser example. Private tutors, the ability to acquire any scientific equipment you want, not having to worry about what your next meal is, not having to get a job at 14 to make ends meet in the family hurting your studies, private schools that do career tracks from 8 with career tracks per student rather than factory public school education, and like I said, more importantly than anything, the connections you get by being in the rich kids club from birth.

You get a stacked hand economically, culturally, and socially. We often focus on the economic part, but I think it is the other two that contribute way more to the status quo being limited upward movement from poorer classes to the wealthy / elite / prosperous.

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