I didn't say expels. You started talking about criminals, apropos of I don't actually know what. Snowden wasn't 'exiled' from the US. His situation is not analogous to that of people who are. That's all I'm saying.
Right, but that’s not definitionally distinct from an accused murderer who skips the country. No one would use the term “exiled” in that case, even if they believe the accusation unjust.
The only reason to use “exiled” is to imply that Snowden is in Russia (or at least outside of the US) by someone’s choice other than his own. That’s what’s misleading about it.
Would you consider someone who murdered several children and then fled the country to be in exile? Because his choices would be to return and face the death penalty, or live in hiding abroad.
Whether you think he did a good thing or a bad thing, it's clear that Snowden is, by his own acknowledgment, guilty of multiple counts of serious felonies in the United States. The government is acting as expected, given this fact.
Edward Snowden has not been exiled in any non-misleading use of the term. He had many opportunities to return to the United States, and could do so today if his current hosts allowed it.
Do you have an argument to make other than whatabouting Snowden? Don't you think that being forced to seek exile in Russia makes it difficult for him to say anything about the media there?
I think you'll find that there is a big difference between the people who planned and willingly went into exile and those who had no choice.
Of course he wouldn't want to give himself up.
You've missed the point though. The US government is directing the world media on the chase for Snowden and keeping them distracted; no one is remotely close to being held accountable for the things that Snowden leaked about.
"You told everyone that we had done something wrong, and now you're going to have to go to jail to make up for it".
Yes, this whole line of argument that Snowden has put forward is beside the point. Whether you call it "exile" or not, it is perfectly reasonable for the US to revoke his passport. It is certainly not "extralegal." It's not even unusual. It is what happens when you're charged with a felony by a US court.
You think that insisting the guy is barred from every ally
You're assuming that every other government is a puppet state of the US, incapable of making its own decisions or engaging in its own politics. No one else has to give Edward Snowden asylum if they don't want to. If you're talking about his passport being revoked, he was accused of a serious crime and was fleeing the country -- revoking someone's passport under those circumstances is not uncommon. None of this is evidence of the US being 'terrified' of anything.
we are grounding foreign president's planes because we are worried Snowden might be on them
WE did not ground anything, unless I missed the part where the United States runs the European Union. I suppose if there's a thunderstorm in Moscow, it's because the US controls the weather too? If Edward Snowden has a bad egg salad sandwich, the US must be poisoning everyone's chickens?
Consider this... the assumption that Edward Snowden has access to secrets so utterly damaging to the US that the government would be willing to do anything and everything possible to stop him... which brings with it the suggestion that the US is so evil that it would have such a secret still stowed away somewhere....
... and yet we let him leave the country at all. And yet, we appear (despite being 'absolutely terrified') to be working within the system. You think it would be impossible for the CIA to book a couple of flights to Moscow and maybe have Edward Snowden eat a bullet if they were that desperate?
Russia provides him freedom he would not have if he had stayed in the US, and has provided him that freedom for over a decade. You're blaming Snowden for the US government's catastrophic governance failures. Maybe blame the abuser/criminal instead of the victim?
I don't know that Snowden is a good example: he had to flee his country in a hurry. There is a great deal of uncertainty about whether he would have a fair trial in the US, a country where many are calling him a traitor.
The US revoked his passport but they didn't stand him? Snowden had limited options and he ended up in Russia. He wasn't going to Russia and he didn't want to live in Russia. This was my point...
I am not American, so perhaps it is that the rest of the world sees this differently than American's do.
Regarding Snowden fleeing, if you disagree with his choice then give this interview a read[1], it is with the whistleblower for the Pentagon papers. The opinion is that if Snowden didn't flee in today's climate then he likely would have ended up in isolation or Guantanamo.
As an outsider to the US it is interesting to observe that American's (on average) have a high distrust of their government, yet follow quite closely the US government's line. (Please note this is not intended to inflame, but it is an honest observation from an outsider that has observed many American's and is intended for you to reflect upon).
reply