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Exactly. Amazon's total years revenue was $107B in 2015. The fact that they spend $16B on shipping while charging $9B for shipping is just the statement that they shift shipping costs into the cost of products and prime memberships. As is well known. So sbierwagen's comment does nothing to dispute msandford's claim.


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One look at their finances and it's clear why they're doing this. According to their SEC filings, last year Amazon brought in $6.5 billion in shipping revenue [1], and spent $11.5 billion on shipping costs. Take those numbers together and they lost $5.0 billion subsidizing shipping. They lose more money on shipping every year than most startups make in a decade. It's a huge cost on their budget, not hard to see why management is trying to cut costs.

[1] Includes some revenue earned from Amazon Prime memberships; excludes shipping revenue of third-party sellers not under the Fulfilled by Amazon program

Data is from page 26 of their 10-K, linked below

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1018724/000101872416...


The claim being disputed is that Amazon isn't profitable. You severely misunderstand the figures in that context.

Companies don't "do it this way". Yes, they track costs, but they don't call themselves unprofitable when costs are negative. That's expected.

> They're still net positive on selling shipped goods

Yes. That's what people are telling you.


Adventured said their _customers_ represent $40+ trillion. Which is a rather meaningless figure, but not clearly wrong.

I general, a lot of shipping revenue comes from business-to-business, which is not threatened by Amazon.


Same headline was run about Amazon. Revenue and costs will give you more insights.

> in operating income > so estimate 16 billion a year.

Amazon is in control of that number. They could easily quadruple that if they pulled money out of avoidance schemes and cut fake costs.


Saying Amazon is absorbing a loss on shipping costs to get market share implies that that they're engaged in predatory pricing (i.e. they're selling below cost to get market share with the intent to raise prices once competition has been destroyed).

There might be some truth to that, but the better explanation for why Amazon isn't profitable is that it's simply plowing all of its profits back into the business. This link is older, but it does a pretty good job of going through the numbers and Jeff Bezo's thinking: http://a16z.com/2014/09/05/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why...


The exact price doesn't matter. The point is, it's wrong to conflate profits with income. You need to subtract costs before you can declare that Amazon "makes" a particular amount of money.

You are of course correct that this gives them revenue, my point is that the article is falsely framing this entirely as profit.


Most of Amazon's revenue is retail sales. Buying a product for $10 and selling it for $10.10 is not comparable to $10 of government spending. After deducting cost of sales and cost of fulfilment you're left with ~$60 billion.

While this is true, it makes the claim that Amazon doesn't cost tax payers anything false.

I'm under the impression that Amazon has never been a big taxpayer.

thin profit margins on amazon is not the same as costs of doing business on amazon. Amazon takes a hefty cut.

> “Amazon Web Services is a $5 billion business and still growing fast -- in fact it’s accelerating,

Revenue 2013: $1000 Revenue 2014: $1690 (+ $690) Revenue 2015: $2518 (+ $828)

With those figures you could still argue that growth (in terms of extra revenue per year) is accelerating.


Just look at how much money Amazon is spending on Prime shipping. It's insane. They're never going to turn a profit, because as soon as they stop subsidizing shipping customers will go elsewhere. There is no reason to expect Amazon's retail arm to ever be more profitable than Walmart is.

> It now has annual revenues in the $8bn range, which is bigger than Amazon’s entire retail operation

If Amazon's total revenue (for 2014) was just shy of $90B[1] how can $8B be more than their retail operation?

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AMZN+Income+Statement&annua...


>Prime members each paying $100 a year, that's $9 billion in free cash flow.

Massive cash flow and very low margin is the name of the business in retail and logistics.

Amazon will not be the one reaping profits from selling fashion.


Why should we be surprised that the company whose business is in shipping and selling a wide range of physical products has more revenue than a range of companies whose income are either service fees or advertisements? We're not comparing like with like; Amazon's revenue is counted against by buying and stocking the physical products they sell to derive that revenue. None of the others on that chart have physical product to worry about and so retain a much higher percentage of revenue for themselves.

> That percentage is the 1.4 billion Klarna takes as revenue.

Implying that transaction volume is on the order of $200 billion? No.

For perspective, Amazon's 2018 revenue is $230 billion.


From the article: "Amazon has 237 million active customers but as a general rule makes almost no profit."

Does Amazon really make no profit? Or do they just have some creative accounting techniques that means they never declare their profits to avoid possible taxes?

Consider the case of the bookdepository.co.uk, purchased by Amazon in 2011. Not only does the bookdepository match most of Amazon's book prices, they offer free worldwide delivery too. Yet, unlike Amazon, they are profitable.


Amazon has historically been evaluated against their revenue instead of income.
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