I'm glad you tried to expand your bubble and understand the viewpoint of conservatism, though choosing sources like r/Conservative or Breitbart is perhaps equivalent to understanding the liberal/progressive view through Daily Kos or a Occupier. It might be representative of a certain strain of popular conservatism, but it doesn't get to much of the deep ideas or intellectual history. I'm not sure if that even matters, since I don't know what percentage of self-described conservatives really give those ideas any thought versus sticking to a "my team versus their team" mentality. But there are some serious conservative thinkers out there worth engaging.
An easy intro discussion of conservative ideas might be William F. Buckley's older interview show Firing Line, which is all on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/firinglinevideos
Disclosure: I don't consider myself conservative nor liberal.
I'm contending exactly what I'm contending, that his understanding quite clearly comes from liberals telling him what conservatives think. The summary is basically "not even wrong". Arguing about "what conservatism is" would be an uninteresting sideshow.
If you think that's an accurate summary of the conservative position, then you too appear to have gotten your understanding of conservative positions from liberals describing them to you.
I'm not expecting to meet many conservatives on HN. I don't expect anyone here to agree very much with them. That would be silly, as I myself don't in many ways. But I believe in condemning things for what they are, not what we can caricature them to be.
Thanks for taking the time to make such a thorough reply. I might give it a read.
As someone who leads liberal, but feels conservatives also have many good points, in addition to serving as the necessary counter-argument that strengthens everyone in a discourse, it's been hard to find sources in the Trump era that advance traditional conservative values in good faith.
Well, I'm not trying to delve into the deeper philosophy of conservatism -- it's moot for what I'm talking about. I mean I see all these obvious problems in America, and the right doesn't seem to have real solutions to solve them.
If I'm being honest, most of the conservatives I've talked to seem more interested in undermining progress because it's coming from the other side of the aisle, or because it implies that government should have a hand in helping it along.
There are many news outlets that provide high-quality conservative viewpoints. e.g. The American Conservative, Reason, Washington Examiner etc. The insightful and different viewpoints here help me understand an issue better.
Several of my friends are conservatives - and they span ethnicities, religions and economic classes. I find conversations with these folks quite insightful and fun. A bit harder to find these folks in Silicon Valley but not impossible. ps: I'm brown too :)
But again their primary sources are fine, they're just not being honest about what they say. You'd be best off just reading the data from the NCES, College Board, etc.
As a rule of thumb, conservative ideology is mostly based on theories that have no basis in reality, whereas liberal ideology is mostly based on facts that have no basis in reality. This is a good example of the latter.
Thanks for the references. The latter bit of your response rings true to my experience. I grew up in a conservative rural area, and the mainstream conservative ideas from then are unrecognizable in today’s version of conservatism.
I didn't go as far, but the conservative-liberal false dichotomy made me increasing watch conservative YouTubers, so that my brain experiences a more moderate world view.
I'm totally not conservative, but I also feel alienated by some liberal ideas. Would be great to hear a healthier mixture someday.
You seem to be painting with a very broad brush, friend. Perhaps you don't know as much about conservatives as you think. Just because some conservatives hold antiquated views doesn't mean it's true of all (or even the majority) of conservatives.
As a conservative, I found this fascinating. For what it's worth, this isn't intended to start a flame war or act as a "gotcha"; I'm genuinely interested in hearing discussions about different perspectives on the topic.
Not the original commenter, but if you are looking for the intellectual underpinning of conservatism then I'd guess Edmund Burke would be a good start. I'd summarise as 'don't tinker with things you don't fully understand' but that overly simplifies it.
Had two attempts at watching that but the arguments are so bad and the views so biased I just bailed.
Maybe i'll write my open white paper,throw together some thinly veiled arguments, sprinkle some graphs and draw the conclusion that conservatives are total dickheads?
Not all you understand. Just biologically speaking. I'm not saying they are. I'm actually very pro conservative. But they are dicks right? I just want a debate in the open about some the evidence I can't be arsed to write. Maybe?
What's the difference between neutered conservative thinking and full-throated conservative thinking? Is it mostly about being pro-life?
For whatever it's worth: I'm Catholic, from an Irish and Eastern-European Catholic family in Chicago, and I am quite familiar with the activist pro-life movement. I respect it, though I do not admire or agree with it.
If you were going to characterize your view of conservativism in just a few bullets, how would you? (I could do that for my view of Democratic liberalism).
There is an intellectual foundation for many parts of conservatism; see Michael Oakeshott in particular as the leading 20th century philosopher of conservatism as a serious intellectual movement.
For the pro-market counter-case, see FA Hayek's Why I Am Not A Conservative; though I think Hayek later contradicted himself in The Origins and Effects of Our Morals.
I'm not personally a conservative, but I'm pretty sure conservatives are not all hardcore libertarians or objectivists. Some of the intellectual brain-trust of conservative thought is libertarian or objectivist, but a lot of the broader conservative movement is not.
An easy intro discussion of conservative ideas might be William F. Buckley's older interview show Firing Line, which is all on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/firinglinevideos
Disclosure: I don't consider myself conservative nor liberal.
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