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nit: The previous president could certainly have done this, but chose not to. obscures the reality that the opposition party - and its grassroots supporters was ruthless in opposing all that Obama did, often for no apparent reason. For instance, the SCOTUS nominee. It was poor behavior, giving us "legislative debt", as it fostered executive action over legislative action.


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> I'm not an Obama supporter, but I gotta wonder why he wasn't even more aggressive than he was with the orders.

Republicons constantly accused Obama of signing too many "unconstitutional" executive orders.


Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? Being Canadian I didn't take as close an interest as I would have in my own government, but it seemed from my perspective like he was doing everything he could to bring about change. The problem appeared to be that he had a very different idea of what that change should be than the Republican Congress, and short of utterly capitulating, I'm not sure how you unilaterally engender cooperation in that situation. I'm sure that I'm both biased and largely uninformed though, so I'm interested in the counter-argument.

This happened under Obama.

This happened under Obama.

> virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do

examples?


Obama did both those things that you mentioned, routinely. I don't think they're good examples.

Obama was elected on a platform of opposition to those programs. Many he shut down outright. Others he imposed changes on.

In this case the changes didn't go far enough, IOHO, but it's amazing to me how quickly people change their opinion of someone, even in relation to much worse examples, due to single issues.


I can't argue that as a definite possibility. Obama certainly did quite a few things directly opposed to reasons I voted for him.

I agree somehow with you, but Obama didn't push it that far though (probably because that wasn't possible yet at the time).

This is typically what I cannot stand anymore in American politics, it has become so much "We" against "them" that each side gets the pitchfork out for things they would be perfectly fine to do if their side did it


"These judges and legislation would, of course, be substantially different from those resulting from an Obama Administration."

Is there some reason to believe that? Obama kept or accelerated a large number of rights-killing policies from the Bush administration...


This is nonsensical. I consider Obama to have been a good President because I liked his policy proposals, not because he of his ability to wield executive power (the bulk of which was inherited from his predecessors, by the way). You talk as if Obama ignored Congress, which is simply not the case.

> Yes, lots of them did.

I'm not disputing that, but my point is there wasn't the current sense of urgency to reign in the executive branch. HN didn't partner with the ACLU and unicorns didn't use the situation as a PR piece.

But what's changed? The president decided to restrict travel and "enhance" screening from muslim countries? Ok.. Yet Obama's drone usage in Islamic countries wasn't good enough to get this response? Or maybe the American citizens Obama decided to assassinate without due process, that didn't raise any eyebrows?

I think my point stands. Obama was so damn charismatic that only he could have pulled that off without major backlash. The vast majority of voting democrats just didn't care about constitutional rights when Obama was in office, and the renewed interest is politically motivated. And for that, I'm thankful to have this clown in office.


>Ok, not saying that Obama has been 100% perfect in his presidency so far, but are you really implying that he's been an awful president?

Yes, yes I am. And if I thought I had any chance of convincing someone who still promotes Obama's "wins" at this point in his presidency, I'd argue it with you. But I don't.

I will leave you with one thought, which is that it's not even the blanket surveillance of the American people that's been Obama's most horrific failure, it's this:

1. http://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/

2. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/09/obama-assassin...

Finally, I'd like to point out that I'm not the one downvoting you (since you're making points I disagree with in good faith).


So there's a lot I could say about this.

First is an example. As much as I, personally, liked (and continue to like) Obama as a person and as much as I agree with most of his policies, at the end of the day he was a pretty ineffective president. Why? Because he could get hardly any legislation passed (Obamacare aka the Affordable Care Act being the principle counterexample). He was a president who ruled by executive order.

The White House is the largest and loudest bully pulpit in the country, by far. You can point to Congress and call them obstructionist but the buck stops with you as president to move your policy agenda and change the national debate. And Obama just wasn't effective at that.

Again, with one exception. It used to be a fairly popular opinion in the US that health coverage was for those with jobs, basically. That still is the position of a significant portion of the population but it's not as popular as it used to be. Obama did change the national debate on this such that the question became how we should provide health coverage and not whether we should.

Go back a decade or more and the Bernie Sanders coverage-for-all policy platform would've relegated him to being a minor player in the primaries, not taken seriously. The fact that he was as prominent a figure as he was is in no small part due to Obama changing the debate on health care (IMHO).

The second thing I'll say is that nothing lasts forever. Demographics change. Opinions change. California voted for Reagan. Twice. It used to be a competitive state. Now it's safely Democratic. Florida used to be safely Republican but (largely due to migration from the Northeast) but now it's a battleground state.

Let's just say that at some point Conservatives get what they've been hoping for: Roe v. Wade overturned in the SCOTUS. It could happen. Largley though the "damage" has been done already. It won't be illegal. It'll just be a state issue. Many states will legallize it the next day. New York for example has already made moves to enshrine the legality of abortions in state law. Now this will suck for particularly poor people in Alabma but in a way Alabamans will get the state government they seem to want.

So let's say that happens. The problem then for Conservatives is they've lost a defining and unifying (for their base) issue. One can argue they're better off politically this way as they'll fracture in the aftermath.

I see the current Conservative bent as a desperate last gasp for what is a majority (in their respective states) that's in decline. A lot of damage can be done before this naturally remedies itself but we're not headed to a dystopian Handmaid's Tale future either.


> people just don't get as excited for legislation and regulation as they do for a candidate

Or, perhaps the legislation never matched up to the candidate. The examples of Obama's hypocrisy are well-documented, from war to spending to pot, and so on. Obama is becoming a flop because he's been a hypocrite on some of the most important issues of the day.


What action has Obama done that can be seen as "sabotaging the next guy"?

I don't see where you pointed out that type of move would be unlawful.

> Obama was elected President twice. What more of a mandate did he think he needed to feel confident enough to take action?

Obama lost control of Congress in 2010. And here's a good summary of the losses at the state level.

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/under-obama-democ...

anyway ... my point is pretty uncontroversial ... which is that there were limits on what Obama could do.


Obama did call Congress out on their behavior. Openly, publicly and many times.

It accomplished absolutely nothing.

Look, when you have an entrenched party, backed up by the ultra-rich, that has sworn to do anything in its power to make sure you fail, there's not much you can do, even if you are the President of the United States.


Or less charitably, candidate-Obama said things he didn't believe in that would get him elected, and elect-Obama acted based on his beliefs.

I agree that the head of the executive and the legislature could change things if they wanted to - the problem is lack of will by the leaders. Even irrational tough on crime / terrorism / communism / the-latest-bogieman rhetoric wins more votes than civil rights rhetoric, at least until the majority feel adversely affected by the lack of rights. In addition, supporting large government transfers to private sectors like defence and national security brings in more campaign funds than supporting rights for natural people.

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