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I get that Apple has much more touch optimized software.

But aren't they effectively building the same toaster/fridge they mocked just a few years ago?

I was listening to a recent ATP podcast and they were going on about how nobody really wants to touch their laptop screen, but in order for an iPad to be a "pro" device you will realistically have to use it with a keyboard and...touch your screen.

The two companies are converging on the exact same thing yet one is considered ingenious and the other clueless.



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I remember headlines calling the iPad a big iPod touch when it came out.

…which is maybe kinda true? I have no idea if they want to make it a “Pro” device, despite the Pro moniker, because you still have such weird multitasking UI paradigms and so many limitations in terms of pro features. (Audio routing comes to mind. You can’t have Audio Hijack for iOS.)

And the value proposition of a fully loaded iPad with keyboard case is pretty dubious to me compared to just getting a MacBook Air. I know, I know, less apps, not a touch screen…but I can just do so much more with a Mac, and with the ARM transition, I also get the insane battery life of an iPad.


Do you mean, I essentially, that Apple refusing to make a touch enabled notebook style computer shows how out of touch Apple is? Or something else, like not developing a better keyboard?

As Apple tells it, they do not foresee merging MacOS and iOS, as the user interface is to different.

Microsoft is more willing to ship products with bad UX, and power through based on their market position, and willingness to stick with it until they get it right.

I cannot see Apple, as it is, releasing something like Windows 8.

The other thing is that iOS is the money maker. Even if iPad doesn’t sell as much as it might, it supports the critical mass of the iOS ecosystem, which is a vulnerability for Apple, due to much smaller market share.


I think it is Surface envy. The iPads are just not very capable in productivity scenarios and Macs are not very flexible. So, if you want a touchscreen device for leisure and a productive device work work, you end up with two machines with very similar specs on the inside. It does not make a whole lot of sense, but it is the state of the Apple ecosystem. Now, Microsoft has a whole bunch of other problems (mainly around reliability) that make the Surface a bit of a mess. But, they do seem to have the right form factor for modern computing.

I disagree somewhat with the characterization of the differences as artificial. I think Apple genuinely believes that, despite their excellent touchpads, a cursor-driven interface is not the same as a touch interface.

They’re gradually bridging them (Catalyst, and adding cursor support to iPadOS), and speaking as a fan of both product lines I’m glad they’re trying to make them each more powerful without just slapping them into a single UI.

Could they do a better job of supporting external devices on iPad? I imagine so, but there’s such a long road from the extremely-protective/simplistic/sandboxed iOS 1.0 to a full-fledged workstation operating system I have to think it’s not all that easy.


I think you’re on to the core of the problem. Apple is a software company that build its own hardware because it had to.

But for the past decade, they haven’t really made any interesting software. iOS is great for iPhones, it’s not great for a laptop replacement. I think OS/x would be a much better fit for the iPad Pro, but perhaps something completely new would be even better? I think the surface book shows us just why that is by the way. If I didn’t personally find windows so terrible, I would leave Apple for one of those in a heartbeat.


Why they didn't simply make a touchscreen MacPro is beyond me. The iPad is crippled.

> Do software developers really crave a touch-first instrument that is barely more portable than a MBP 13"?

I don't know about the need for touch-first, but I can certainly see where the blog post is coming from.

It's not so much about what the iPad can do, it's more about what it cannot do and that there's no technical reason for its limitations.

It's kind of pointless to have two separate device classes when there's no technical difference between them anymore. Before the release of the M1 laptop and Mac Mini it could have been argued that the more traditional machines were more powerful and expandable.

But there's literally no difference between the hardware of a Macbook, Mac Mini, and iPad Pro apart from peripherals (e.g. screen, keyboard, touchpad). Why would a developer even need two devices when the laptop runs the same hardware and is only missing things (modem, touch screen, sensors, cameras)?


I appreciate the effort that goes into these products but I find the market position weird.

Case in point: by the time I add a keyboard case to my 11" iPad Pro, it weighs more than my MacBook Air does and it's not a lot smaller. I think I should just take the MacBook Air with me. That has the same CPU, storage and memory and I can run full stack on it fine.

That is not to denigrate the usefulness of the iPad, which I run a big chunk of my life on, but editing text or code is one place it really doesn't add up.

The killer app I find with my iPad is when you need pen input. For drawing, doing route planning in OS maps and general research and note taking it's an amazing little device.


I have zero interest in using a worse laptop. Touch screens are an anti-feature. For decades we have tried as an industry to do touch interfaces on “real” computers and it’s always horrible because it’s not actually a thing worth doing.

With M1 Macs being a thing I have no idea what benefits an iPad offers.


That raises an interesting point: Is it the existence of the iPad Pro that prevents Apple from moving forward on touch screen laptops. Introducing a touch screen MacBook could completely kill the iPad Pro and I'm not sure that Apple want to lose that market.

Still it could be that they still firmly believe that touch screen on laptops are unnecessary and provides a poor user experience, something that I happen to believe that they would be right in.


The other thing people tend to overlook that Apple has a history of creating new categories of devices. The ipad carved out a niche for itself over time. So did the ipod back in the day.

An ipad pro with the fancy keyboard cover is basically a laptop in all but name and I know a few non technical people who insist that's all they need. The next obvious move is to bridge the gap between the two software ecosystems; which is something they started doing a few years ago by allowing IOS applications to run on Mac OS. Blurring the line further, an ipad with the keyboard attached a bit more and the ability to run Mac OS software (similar to how chrome os can run linux packages) would not be that much of a stretch.

So, an ARM macbook with a touch screen wouldn't necessarily be that different from an ipad with a keyboard. The hard part is basically all software. Imagine an ipad where you can install your favorite adobe tools, home brew, and an IDE. Probably a lot easier to sell than a macbook that doesn't run most of the software you are used to even though technically they aren't that different in terms of hardware and software.

Also, thinking beyond their current device categories; Apple has not done a lot wit VR/AR and gaming centric experiences so far. They've done a little bit via IOS and Apple TV but they've arguably held back a little bit here.


My guess is that Apple wants companies to reinvent their programs to work well on a touchscreen, which has largely been happening. If you could just drop macos on the ipad, we wouldn't have things like Procreate. You'd just get told to install desktop photoshop and connect a mouse and keyboard.

Aren't they doing the complete opposite by, for example, not adding touchscreen to Macs and handicapping iPadOS on purpose so that it can't be used for real work despite having an M1?

They benefit way more from selling multiple devices for different purposes than they would from selling "THE" ultimate device.


I don't think people want to fudge the different interaction styles together. I think they just want to have both experiences out of the same hardware.

I carry an M1 MacBook Air, and a iPad Air 5th-gen. They both have identical fanless M1 Apple ARM silicon, both have identical ram (8GB) and identical storage (256gb), it's practically the same device. I even also carry the iPad Magic Keyboard. I have to carry two sets of everything, just because Apple artificially prevents any of their own software from working on any of their own hardware.

It makes perfect sense to me that, when in tablet/touchscreen interaction, I get a traditional iPad experience.

It makes zero sense, that when I attach the $300 traditional keyboard/trackpad to that iPad Air, I get thrown into a weird iPad-kinda-pretending-to-be-a-laptop-but-failing mode, where you "kinda" have a mouse cursor, and "kinda" have windows (but only 2 or 3!) and you can "kinda" resize them, and you can "kinda" have an external display (but despite being huge, you still can't have more than 3 windows!).

macOS already works great, "iPad Stage Manager" feels like a bunch of people trying desperately to justify breaking macOS conventions and UI/UX, mostly for no good reason.

There's no reason I couldn't be put into normal macOS, and even have my existing iPad apps still running (the software portion of this already works on macOS today, iPad apps run on macOS right now! You just cant experience this on any of the devices that have touchscreens -- you can't do this on the devices that would most benefit from it.)


During the height of the touchscreen ultrabook craze I had a "touchscreen MacBook" by setting up my Zenbook as a Hackintosh.

It honestly wasn't that useful past being a party trick: it's not very ergonomic to touch a laptop screen unless it folds completely like a convertible laptop. A convertible MacBook could be interesting, but that's already the niche the iPad Pro seems to try to fill despite its OS hangups.

And like the article mentions the OS X UI is not at all designed for touch input, touch targets are tiny, lots of precise movements to navigate menus, etc.


The iPad is mirroring the development of the original personal computer.

Bit by bit more tasks can be done on it as well as some new ones that aren't suited to traditional PCs. Just like we see today with phones, laptops, desktops, mainframes and the like - there are already people who can do all of their computing on just one device.

As for the complaints, everything is fair game, but most of the complaints about the iPad seem to be rooted in what it can't do in comparison to a laptop computer, or more specifically macOS. This is often given with the flimsy validation that the product is labelled "pro".

However it seems clear that it has "pro" in the title because it's far more capable than other iPads, not because it is peers to the Mac Pro computer. I also think it's borderline absurd to base an argument on marketing nomenclature. (Especially as there is an iPhone Pro, Airpods Pro etc.)

It seems clear (to me), that in order to make a thin, light, and performant device, that some compromises would need to be made - otherwise why aren't the laptops similarly thin and light. A cursory review of the specs between an iPad Pro and a MacBook Pro tell the story in better detail.

Perhaps one day iPads will have limitless background processing functionality, but there should be no expectation that the iPad of the day would match the functionality of the laptop or desktop of the day.


It seems to me that the operating system is designed with the keyboard/cover combination in mind, and the operating system --- especially the upcoming Pro version --- has more of the capabilities of a desktop computer than are offered by iOS. (I'm frankly tempted by the device, but I don't see a huge argument for it over a laptop for my most common uses.) In short, it's not so much the device as its software that makes the difference.

In case of the MacBook and the iPad, seems like it’s more about the OS. At least that’s what most comments here are mentioning when comparing an iPad to a MacBook.

An iPad Pro and a MacBook Air have the same core hardware - even the same M1 CPU. Add a keyboard and they look really similar except that the iPad has a touchscreen!

But there are lots of hybrid tablets and touchscreen laptops. What makes the iPad an amazing device for me is its outstanding software library (e.g. Procreate) and the Apple Pencil.

I could certainly imagine Apple bringing its Pro apps - notably Final Cut, Logic, and XCode - to the iPad. But I can't imagine Apple opening up iOS any time soon any more than I would imagine Nintendo opening up the Switch.

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