>Cost of living is absurdly high, unemployment is low and life is just really convenient.
My understanding is that the cost of living is very reasonable, with what the average person gets paid. Almost everyone else in Europe spends a bigger portion of their income on accommodation, food, clothes, commuting etc. while the cost of electronics, cars, vacations and so on remains the same.
> Maybe, but the cost of living in Europe is already considerably higher than in the US (barring of course the popular but disingenuous comparisons between SF/NYC and rural Europe).
Living costs in Europe are incredibly uneven, like they are in the states. Denmark is much more expensive than next door Netherlands, for example, which is actually quite reasonable (and perhaps Americans might even find it cheap outside of Amsterdam).
> On the other hand since wages are not so high the price of services is lower too. So things like food in restaurants is just cheap (and great). With 24k you dont need kitchen and can basicaly eat outside all the time. [...] It depends where you live but i dont think you can compare europe with north america.
Besides, traffic congestion in big European cities happens to be bad beyond an average American's imagination, so not wanting a car may be forced by these dire circumstances much more than a result of "not caring that much about buying things"...
> With 150k you would be considered very very rich. Presidents and heads of state make that much in most of the european countries.
>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY!
I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k.
I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life.
I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.
From what I hear - I've never been there - this remains true only as long as you're not ill, don't need education and are employed. In most EU countries these things are taken care of for you, so the comparison seems a bit unfair.
You have to be more specific. EU has a huge range in cost of living. Switzerland/Norway are very expensive. Poland/Romania are cheap.
Plus, as an American, you will get double-taxed in some of the countries that don't have an agreement with the US.
Having living in both the US and the EU, USA is still cheaper, as in, you end up with a lot more money after all your expenses, even if you account the health insurance costs (which the difference with the EU taxes alone will offset).
It is in the U.S. too, we just struggle to acknowledge it because then we would also have to start asking hard questions about how Europeans have that average salary but also universal health care, public transportation, and a social safety net.
> That can definitely be true, because in Europe the size of the salary matters much less than in the US[1].
I don't believe in that. Yes, the housing prices might scale with the income. However if I want to buy a car, it's about the same price here and there. Just that my income is lower, and I have to save a lot longer for that. The same is true for all electronics devices, going to vacation, etc.
> If you take a 3500 $ Swedish salary with all the taxes applied, your life level might be equivalent as a 7000 $ salary in US.
That really depends on your lifestyle. I spend a lot of time in both North Western Europe and the states. I find that the cost of housing, car ownership and driving, power, clothing, basic luxuries are far lower in the US. The higher cost is in things like education, health insurance etc. Over a lifetime it might balance out to the same, but as long as you're healthy and working, a $7k income in most of the US will buy you a life style a European with a $3.5k income could barely imagine.
> Middle income America has cheaper housing, food and durables with higher wages than middle income in Western Europe.
Is food really cheaper? That's not what I heard but I don't know.
But that's a weird take. Quality of life is not entirely dominated by your purchase power if you have enough to sustain life. What about having time for culture, friends, family, quality of the environment, safety, access to healthcare etc. The only exception may be housing.
Some cities here (in europe) have an absolutely incredible quality of life and I would never factor in the price of groceries because it doesn't matter. Everyone in the middle class can afford groceries. Housing maybe, in some cities it's a real issue, but I personally don't care as much because I don't really need an abundant apartment so I always find something. I want beautiful cafes just around the corner, vibrant, active culture from fine art to independent, small artists and beautiful parks and buildings.
I would never trade it for a big car and a big house in some suburb.
A friend of mine is working 32h a week and I am starting to think that he has figured out how to really improve his quality of live. On a programmers wage you're still middle class, you just earn so much. And he's travelling so much, meeting friends, getting into hobbies or just enjoying a really nice coffee in a cafe, taking in the beautiful autumn lights, while everyone else is working that you're always a but envious.
>When you consider taxes, housing, and other costs, the difference is really not that great.
I've made the opposite experience. Sure everything is 30% more expensive in Germany than in Poland but you also make twice as much money. The differences in cost of living are pretty insignificant but the salary is so much higher that it more than makes up the difference.
> the cost of almost everything in the US is higher
Certainly not compared to Europe/UK. I have friends that moved there and have spent many weeks over there myself. Property, living expenses, taxes, and many goods are generally noticeably higher over there.
> The US median cost of living is lower than in: Germany, France, UK, Australia, Sweden, Finland, Canada.
Could you please refer me to a source for cost of living comparison? I am not disputing this assertion, I have just been unable to find a good source comparing cost of living between countries.
Europe is about bringing everyone to the average. It is not a land of extremes like the US. Your $150k example salary is super super high for Europe so it's going to get pushed way down to be closer to the average.
If you take your example but change the salary to any number in the lower / middle class range, you are going to be far better off.
That is just the nature of the EU vs the US. If you're rich, the US is great. If you're not rich, you're probably better off in Europe.
> This is especially important in US because the cost of living is high
Cost of living in the US expensive? Have you traveled to Europe or Japan? Life is way more expensive in Europe, and in some European countries salaries are way lower than in the US.
It's raising kids what is more expensive in the US than in Europe:
> If the average American knew what the benefits and lifestyle are like for a middle-class German family
In a pure numbers comparison, you tend to get higher salary in the US. I guess an American making $100k in the US would not easily consider a $70k job in Europe, because it immediately seems like a downgrade.
Not everyone bothers to go into details, like cost of healthcare, pension, daycare, school fees when applicable, tax rates and whether there is property tax or not, cost of commute, typical cost of a home, groceries etc.
> Because to Europe, the salaries are much lower than on UK,
After emigrating to central Europe I have to disagree. The salary in the UK is relative to the location so London for example is stupidly expensive to live in, so instead you commute an hour or so and still pay fairly high rent.
High salaries are in the major cities, but they carry extremely high cost of living, without necessarily high standard.
The salaries are actually closer than you might think once you look around of course, and the cost of living is almost always significantly less. So from my own experience overall I'm significantly in the green.
> Actually US is looking like South America: You try to earn as much as you can, not because you want, but to be able to live a safer life.
South America isn't all as bad as you hear on the news. You seem to have these sweeping ideas. Things usually aren't that black and white though.
>Despite a generally higher cost of living in Europe, salaries across the board are lower.
I was more responding to that idea: everything is more expensive, and everyone is making a lot less (not just the top quintile). Seems like a bad trade, but that's just my $0.02
My understanding is that the cost of living is very reasonable, with what the average person gets paid. Almost everyone else in Europe spends a bigger portion of their income on accommodation, food, clothes, commuting etc. while the cost of electronics, cars, vacations and so on remains the same.
reply