annoyingly, on dvorak ls is typed with the pinky of the right hand for both characters, and then I usually use the same finger to press enter again after
That’s interesting. I guess I never really thought about it, but on dvorak `ls` is a double tap with the right pinky, and it’s often immediately followed by [enter] with the same pinky… I type that key sequence a lot
That's odd. Dvorak is specifically designed to make you alternate between the two hands, so that one hand can get ready to hit the next key while the other is typing the previous one.
This is achieved mainly by having all the vowels on the left hand, and the most used consonants on the right. Natural languages take care of ensuring a good alternation between consonants and vowels.
That's a good point. I know I definitely do that for the -= keys... but then again, my proper form breaks down for the top row of the keyboard. That's my biggest weakness by far. For ,./;'[]\ I would argue that you should be able to use the proper finger just fine.
Also, fun fact, Dvorak has one major flaw if you are a CLI addict like I am. The command "ls -l" is typed entirely with the right pinky finger. If you want to know what it feels like on a qwerty keyboard, then simulate it by typing "p; 'p"
I struggled with this combination a lot, but eventually I drilled it into my fingers, and now I can type it totally naturally.
The one bad thing about switching to the Dvorak layout is that in Dvorak, ls is really cumbersome to type. The l isn't on the home-row, and both of them are on the right pinky. The way I do it now, it's virtually impossible to type sl instead of ls.
Typing dc instead of cd, though is still very common. And dc just mockingly tells me: "will not attempt to process directory."
(I now have `no` aliased to ls. Maybe I should alias `on` to sl.)
As a Dvorak user, ive had this problem (or similar ones) for years. I basically gave up typing in Dvorak on my windows machines (thankfully my primary desktop is Linux)
> Dvorak favours the right hand by 14% (QWERTY favours left by 15%). Dvorak has more uniform finger usage and makes greater use of the pinky (18% vs QWERTY's 10%).
I find that writing code, my right pinky is by far the most overworked finger, on account of the ; ' " [ ] { } - _ = and + characters, and especially the return key which you hit all the time in code but only once per paragraph in prose. So now I can shake off this nagging feeling that I should look into Dvorak. Thanks.
- I almost always use my ring finger for 'L', including when typing 'ls', which is fairly comfortable. I only use pinky when coming from a letter that needs the ring finger.
- 'F' is indeed in a terrible spot, I don't know what the Doctor was thinking with that one.
- I use the setting on the Mac that leaves Cmd- shortcuts in QWERTY, so that's a non-issue.
- I've never had a problem using Dvorak with Vim. In particular, I like how 'jk' and 'hl' are on different hands.
- As for speed, I type much faster in Dvorak (~100 wpm) than I did in QWERTY (~60 wpm), but that may be because I learned it around the same time I started typing a lot more frequently, so take that for what it's worth.
Overall I agree that Dvorak isn't optimal but I wouldn't say the jump from Dvorak to Colemak is comparable to the one from QWERTY to Dvorak. Plus, I don't have nearly as much time/interest as I used to for learning a new layout. :P
CTRL-C on dvorak is incredibly annoying. I have to use both my left and right hands. I should be using just my right hand and the right control key, but its quite hard getting used to. I didn't do any mapping so I haven't encountered any mnemonic problems :)
"First, Dvorak is very good at keeping fingers on home row - 71% of keystrokes land there (compare this with 34% for QWERTY). This alone is worth the price of admission. Dvorak bottom row usage is very low at 9% (15% for QWERTY). Dvorak favours the right hand by 14% (QWERTY favours left by 15%). Dvorak has more uniform finger usage and makes greater use of the pinky (18% vs QWERTY's 10%). The cumulative run statistics illustrate Dvorak's strength in alternating hands. 62% of successive keystrokes on Dvorak do not use the same hand (rh(0)) and 88% of adjacent keystrokes use the same hand at most once (rh(1)). In contrast, with QWERTY only 51% of successive keystrokes do not use the same hand and only 76% use the same hand at most once. QWERTY forces the typist to use the same hand repeatedly, which limits the amount of rest and increases effort. Dvorak's preference for the use of the right-hand give it longer right hand runs with only 47% of keystrokes that use the right hand being followed by use of the left hand (61% for QWERTY). The corresponding statistic for the left hand is reversed, with Dvorak at 76% and QWERTY at 42%."[1]
The authors of the Reason Magazine article from 1996 that you linked to stated that "Ergonomic studies also confirm that the advantages of Dvorak are either small or nonexistent." But the authors cited only one nameless, undated study. This promotion of QWERTY isn't surprising seeing as how Reason Magazine is written by ideologues whose goals include the promotion of the idea that the invisible hand of the market is never wrong.
You should consider getting your information from specialists who are active researchers rather than the writings of non-specialists from previous decades.
Have you ever tried to use the most common shortcuts on Dvorak (Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V)? You will have to use 2 hands, or stretch your (right sided) mouse hand. This killed it for me.
I also switched from QWERTY to Dvorak, as an excuse to learn to touch-type - after a decade or so of typing QWERTY in my own seven-or-eight-finger style, there was no way I'd ever be able to override such ingrained habits. I've been using Dvorak constantly at home and work for several years now, and I just clocked myself at 77wpm on TypeRacer - not that impressive, but then I find I spend more time thinking and editing than typing anyway. :)
Also: in those TypeRacer trials, I found my right hand doing a lot more work than my left-hand - possibly because my left hand stays on the vowels and my right-hand is jumping about all over the place. Why oh why couldn't Dvorak have put R and L somewhere more... convenient? :(
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