(Author here.) Wow, that's fascinating. I've always heard them referred to as cheese curls—that strikes me as an interesting example of how regionalisms tend to change the names of common things. Like, the Chee Wees I mention? They're incredibly common in a specific region of the U.S., but outside of it they don't even register.
I wrote a piece about ranch dressing a year and a half ago, and it was a similar situation—outside of the U.S., nobody knew what ranch dressing was, so Doritos had to use, uh, creative naming strategies to get around the unfamiliarity.
And then you get into differing meanings of 'gravy.' When I was on the Subcontinent, it meant what we in America would call a sauce; we use 'gravy' to mean a particular kind of sauce made from meat drippings.
Very weird at first for a Westerner to see vegetarian food described as having a gravy!
The food (or just literal "oil") sense came first, though; unctuous has always been a sensory texture word. It wasn't always a positive quality, mind you; it's just one of several normal words you could use to call something "oily" in Latin. From Etymonline:
> late 14c., "oily, having a greasy or soapy feeling when touched," from Old French unctueus, from Medieval Latin unctuosus "greasy," from Latin unctus "act of anointing," from past participle stem of unguere "to anoint" (see unguent).
> Figurative sense of "blandly ingratiating" is first recorded 1742, perhaps in part with a literal sense, but in part a sarcastic usage from unction in the meaning "deep spiritual feeling" (1690s), such as comes from having been anointed in the rite of unction. Related: Unctuously; unctuousness.
(Which is to say: there are probably Bible translations from before the sarcastic personality sense developed in the 1700s, that use the word "unctuous" as an adjective for the same effect that we'd today use the word "anointed.")
It's kind of fascinating that the word "unctuous" has acquired positive connotations with respect to food, from starting off as a relatively neutral descriptor. I think it's maybe a rare reversed example of the common connotative shift that happens over time, where if there's a "high [language]" word (usually a foreign import that sounds fancy and technical at the time of its introduction) and a "low [language]" word (usually a native or much older borrowed word) for something, then the "low [language]" word will acquire negative or rude connotations to speakers of that language. E.g. the difference in propriety in English between writing "I'm eating pork" vs "I'm eating pig"; or between writing "feces" vs "dung."
I really hate the gratuitous adjective issue too but the ones you chose I wouldn't call inherently pretentious, except that they are exaggerations that don't add much (or any) value. There really is pretentious gibberish in that menu.
Maine (well New England) lobsters are different from langoustines which are often referred to as lobsters in English. Though personally when eating the tail I can't tell the difference. Perhaps I'm a philistine and some can. This is up there with the "Spanish" capers..I know you can tell the difference.
"French Laundry garden" cabbage..."grown in our garden" is good enough for me. "Sacramento Delta asparagus" ... not as good as Half Moon Bay? "local" would be fine.
A "King Richard" leeks actually is a specific breed of leek. Oh but wait, it's the plain old leek you'd find in any grocery store. Sure glad they let me know.
For true prevention let's switch to the nouns, shall we? It's OK to use a foreign word that has no, or only a distant, English relative. But "Streusel" is called "strudel" in English. The Saboyon doesn't exist in English but the French word is for a sweet dessert which I really doubt is used in an oyster dish. etc.
With all those adjectives someone should do a "truth in advertising" sting on those restaurants. It'd make great TV
Indeed ! But as pointed by the sample I provided, you can use that word to refer to the act of grilling vegetables, so there is no point in being overly particular about the use of the word grillade. If a word was already reserved for the designation of grilled vegetables, on the model of bus/car or train/tramway (ie /within a city/ vs /between cities/), I'd accept your argument.
However what's discussed here is a case of legislators deciding what shape language should take, not usage !
My Northern ears aren't delicate enough to have picked up on those semantics. All I remember is Ya'll this and Ya'll that, cinnamon seasoned beans and rice (from some place my dad loved to eat at in down town Dallas) and lots of beer basted brisket.
For bonus points, I've seen Slacker. That should count for something.
my food was butterscotch? It's because I have a friend whos band's name is 'Butterscotch Stanley'... man nearly none of this is correct with the exception of age and location related stuff.
I imagine most people use it mean things like hamburgers, ribs, BBQ, NY Style Pizza etc. Basically the stuff you would get if you went to an 'American' restaurant in a European country.
TIL about "bog butter" and half a dozen other culinary terms that I've never heard of. Maybe for good reasons we don't make these food anymore? (banbidh, old curds, real curds, bainne clabair, sowens, flummery, etc)
These terms long ago became generalized. There are already trademarked brands, what does this extra layer of protectionism add. I don't think we should allow anyone to call a hamburger, they can call them ground beef patties on a bun - which is what they are.
Same with sandwiches outside of sandwich. Probably the same with indian pale ales, etc.... The geographic term describes a style.
This is unhelpful quibbling over the semantics of one word. You know what I meant. Everyone knows what I meant. I even explained in more detail what I meant. You're also wrong about the word, but I'm not going to bother arguing that here.
Please refrain from writing "this meat smells funny" comments on HN. You could go around commenting on typos too, which happen all the time, but that's not at all helpful.
The word gravy is sometimes used to refer to other sauces. In (American?) Italian cuisine it specifically refers to a very slowly cooked tomato sauce that is traditionally made on Sunday. In Indian cuisine it refers to the sauce made from spices and vegetables. In Southern US cuisine it's more like a béchamel. The etymology of the word is unclear but there is a suspected link to old French words for spice and stew.
Principal Skinner: Superintendent, I hope you're ready for mouth-watering hamburgers.
Superintendent Chalmers: I thought we were having steamed clams.
Principal Skinner: Oh, no, I said, "steamed hams." That's what I call hamburgers.
Superintendent Chalmers: You call hamburgers steamed hams.
Principal Skinner: Yes, it's a regional dialect.
Superintendent Chalmers: Uh-huh. What region?
Principal Skinner: Uh, upstate New York.
Superintendent Chalmers: Really. Well, I'm from Utica and I never heard anyone use the phrase, "steamed hams."
Principal Skinner: Oh, not in Utica, no; it's an Albany expression.
Superintendent Chalmers: I see.
'Greasy' was burgers/fries/bike-chains, and 'greezy' was reserved for people like that 'uninvited back-rub guy'.
reply