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Well yes, the system didn't work nearly as well if you were going or travelling from farther out. That's yet another data point to indicate that it's as much about political will as it is about environment.


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Miles better in one sense (waste accumulation/environment) but miles worse in at least one other: convenience.

Guess which one is more important to the general consumer? People voted with their wallets.


Other systems not about money have been tried, and they are worse for the environment.

I think this is an interesting idea, though I suspect "on net the status quo is worse environmentally" is a hard question to answer w/o the aforementioned in-depth reviews (at least to an extent; obviously the current system has problems).

it was not environment-friendly, and people should do less trips anyway, Earth is dying

I don't really see how any of this (aside from the brief mention of commuting again) has any bearing on the question of whether it's better for the environment.

This doesn't seem like a realistic way to measure environmental impact.

How far are you traveling? It's very very very unlikely that what you are doing is actually good for the environment, unless you are making a trash run only every few months.

Doesn't seem like the best idea when it comes to environmental sustainability.

I think they were commenting on the pollution, not the inefficiency.

It's a bad thing if you wanted to minimise environmental impact (and space requirement is a part of that) or maximise transport security. You are free to make any tradeoff you want, but in this case the environment has to suffer the consequences of your choice. Externalising costs doesn't make them go away.

but now the poor people have to commute to the suburbs completely negating the environmental benefits lol

> This is good design. Separation of concerns!

I'm not convinced that this is necessarily true for environmental policy. Imagine, for example, how much people would care about their waste footprint if they had to keep all the trash that would otherwise go into an ocean.

Once we have no idea anymore where the power in our cars comes from, and no visible pollution in the street that we know is caused by cars, won't the search for a better power source slow down a lot?

"Not in my neighbourhood" etc... :)


The environmental impact has not been measured in a meaningful way. Its hyperbole so far. And its not convenience; its a necessity for many.

It's both good because it creates opportunity and provides opportunity to a new class of traveler but it's bad because it expands the number of people who can travel and thus negatively impact the environment.

Not much different from wanting to eliminate poverty from the world, however, we know full well a middle class person had greater impact on the environment. They consume more goods and waste more.

It's neither good or bad but something we must keep in mind as we can't wish the consequences away.


> Convenient for tracking people! Also terrible for the environment.

Can you explain the environmental critique a bit?

A Solana transaction consumes about as much energy as two Google searches. Where exactly would the environmental damage come from?


environmental impact studies were not done for highways either and they are much worse environmentally.

The 469 sq miles they lived in would be more impacted, but the other half million miles would be far less impacted.

It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that it's better for the environment to take up 1000 times as much of it.


I think their point in the passage that you quoted was to argue that it was environment-friendly, not cost-effective.

I’d forgotten about that. That certainly seems suboptimal, from an environmental point of view.
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