Beijing is the opposite: red lights are merely advisory for drivers. Cars just cross the pedestrian crossings. That has trained pedestrians to be very attentive.
I’ve never, ever seen a car run a red light at a pedestrian crossing in London. Both as a pedestrian and driver, I am confident that all cars will stop and keep to the red light. If anything, vehicles show an abundance of caution and assume a flashing yellow is the same as a solid red and yellow, and remain behind the line even when the crossing is clear.
I regularly see cyclists ride through pedestrian crossings with pedestrians on them, which as a pedestrian is utterly terrifying - particularly when it happened when I was in a wheelchair, on crutches or with a walking stick (I had serious mobility issues a few years back).
I have never seen a cyclist stop for a pedestrian waiting at a zebra crossing in London. I’ve seen it once in Manchester.
I regularly see cyclists on pavements, even riding next to kerb-segregated cycle lanes. This is an offence the Highway Code is incredibly clear about. When a cyclist is doing over 20mph on a pavement coming towards me, it’s terrifying, again.
When I am watching my speed in a 20 zone, I am rarely overtaken by a frustrated vehicle driver who thinks they know better, but I am often overtaken by cyclists who seem to think speed limits don’t apply to them. In 20 zones with high density of cyclists to pedestrians (Richmond Park, Bushy Park, and so on), this is scary to experience both as a driver and as a pedestrian.
Your anecdata is yours, mine is mine, but I will not accept that cyclists are all about safety in London, and motorists are not.
The perception of most non-cyclists in London is that cyclists consistently behave in ways dangerous to pedestrians and other traffic, and running red lights are just one of the factors in that. Yes, cars should give you time and space to move off, and I always do, but all the other behaviours I’ve described are common, dangerous, and inexcusable.
It's certainly routine to see cyclists running red lights in London. I'm sure cars do that sometimes, but I can't recall ever having seen a car do it while I was crossing the road.
It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. The rules are the rules and we should all abide them.
It happens all the time in London where bikes go through red lights and weave through pedestrians (sometimes at speed) who are crossing the road. Pedestrians are even worse - and often walk or run across red lights and almost get hit from a bus, car or bike. It’s madness!
Another difference I appreciate is that UK traffic lights cycle red -> yellow -> green. So, given a red light I have at least 1-2 seconds that's safe, and usually more since the timing can be inferred from traffic patterns (cars won't get a green light while there is active cross traffic). I always look more at the vehicle lights instead of pedestrian lights -- I don't particularly trust drivers to pay attention to pedestrians or our signals...
Why were you jumping lights though, is that not causing yourself more danger?
I've been a cyclist, motorcyclist and a driver. I've never jumped a red light on a bike. In the past 10 years of living in London I've seen hundreds of cyclists running red lights long after they've changed, or before they change back. I've seen plenty of motor vehicles run through a yellow-red, but never a long-red light (until yesterday actually).
Just yesterday I did see a taxi cross a junction on a red as it was about to change back to green, but while still red (how impatient can you be)?
I don't cycle anymore, I was hit by cars 3 times when I wasn't at fault before I moved to London, and decided not to take my chances there.
I'm always aware of cyclists and motorcyclists around me and will go out of my way to accommodate them, too many road users are blind to them, but I can't agree with red light running; if someone comes across the junction while its red for you because you decided to cross, and kills you, it's very much your fault, but they'll take the blame, or at least the burden, and you'll be dead.
As for police fishing operations, I've seen them sitting on one-way streets ticketing cyclists and scooter users, which personally I think is a bit silly (especially in the case of this particular street).
Having cycled in both the US and the UK, I think you both are right.
I have never seen a cyclist in the UK run a red light at a complex intersection (often only running the 'quiet' side of a T-junction, or an empty junction with a 20MPH speed limit and no cars in sight). Also worth noting is that the roads in UK cities are much narrower, I would guess 40-60, and often have less lanes and often have a bike lane of some sort.
In the US (California) I have seen all the crazy stuff. People running red through traffic, people doing a U-Turn, people going the wrong way, people crossing to go the wrong way, people blowing through a red light whilst on their phone.
However for cars, the UK has more stop lights that are for cars giving way to pedestrians, i.e. there is no junction. I have sometimes seen cars run a red on these when they don't notice/care. However in the US the red lights are at junctions, and are therefore more dangerous for cars (getting T-boned) I have however seen more people run these still.
I think that cyclists running red lights is a symptom that most crossings and junctions are designed primarily for motor vehicles. Some countries modify traffic laws for cyclists such as the Idaho Stop and Paris has also made changes so that red lights can be treated as Give Way/Yield. However that does not excuse cyclists that endanger pedestrians.
One-way streets are also seldom designed to take into account cyclists and again, they're designed for large motor vehicles. Here in the UK, there are lots of one-way streets that have a specific cycle lane to go the wrong way, but it's a lottery as to whether local councils have bothered to examine the one-ways.
Motorists run red lights differently to cyclists, because you are at the front of the lights you just don't see it. However, watch any lights in the UK and you will be shocked at how many motorists waltz through after the lights have gone red, waaay after the amber light has gone out.
As a cyclist you filter to the front so you just don't see this as often as it happens. Statistically there are more cars on the roads than bicycles so the majority or red light jumping is almost certainly by cars. On a bike it is just a bit more blatant with turns on left (UK) made that motorists would never do if there was a red light stopping them.
Jumping pedestrian crossings - 'pelican crossings' - is another thing. Cyclists get this wrong but there is also a lot of common sense, if people have crossed already, why stop? Plus if the traffic was cyclists and buses then these crossings would not be needed.
I was once on a London bus that got stopped by the police for jumping a red light.
It was at Hyde Park Corner, heading north toward Park Lane - the light guarding the intersection with Knightsbridge turned red, the bus sailed through, and I think a nearby police car just happened to notice. Pulled the bus over and had a word with the driver, nothing more I think, but it was curiously reassuring.
I agree with you (as a former cycle commuter too) that drivers in London jump the lights far more than most people realise. If you go out for a half-hour walk and pay attention, you're highly likely to see it at least once.
In the UK, the lights go [red] ? [red+amber] ?? [green], so that drivers are ready to move as soon as the light turns green. People don't run red lights.
To be honest, some red lights are just pointless for cyclists. One example are pedestrian crossings with no pedestrian in sight, another are very small crossings (maybe even at night) where you can see anyone coming half a mile away, with nobody in sight.
I also hate the one where you're supposed to wait 2 light cycles instead of 1 for turning left. That is a major road so people usually follow the rule, but it's not good. At the same time the city advocates doing that twice on both sides of the bridge so you can cross at the proper side on the shared sidewalk and not ride against the (often non-existent) flow on the other shared sidewalk. Of course people still do it.
There are different types of running red lights (and the dangers are country dependent). I myself frequently pull away at the lights while still red a second before they go green. I do it to get out ahead of the traffic for my own safety and to get clear of the traffic so I’m not in the way. This is in London, where all pedestrians are crossing at the same time and there are no cars moving.
The main danger in it is drivers becoming angry (totally irrationally) and reckless.
Interestingly enough, I think you missed one of the more important points by focusing only on the stop signs. Red lights can't be red lights to everyone in a lot of places simply by the nature of their construction. It's why the dead red laws exist, and it's that very often red lights were constructed with solely cars in mind and have sensors that cannot detect bikers that signal a request to the light for a change. While this isn't the case at all lights, it highlights the fact that there are clear differences in the classes of vehicles and that the control structures on the roads were designed with cars in mind, not bikes. These laws are simply attempts to rectify this in light of an increasing interest in bikes as a transportation method.
Add in that usual London traffic moves at about bicycle speed, and the central part of town is a very human friendly place.
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