Then maybe you are completely unfamiliar with the military culture of showing respect for those who have suffered and died and being sensitive to the survivors left behind.
You might be surprised how "civilized" military members can be. Among their own and blowing off steam they will say things that will make the hair curl on most people... and then if you look around at the others it's obvious it's not said out of malice but is a mark of The Brotherhood. They have not only pledged their lives to serve and protect their bothers in arms, they have, in many cases, made good on that promise. Saying massively politically incorrect things -- even things that would sound hateful to an outsider -- is a strange way of showing affection. "I might think you're a blankety-blank blah-blah politically incorrect and mentally inferior example of humanity but I will give my life on the battlefield so that you can make it home, even if I don't make it back myself." For those who have not gone through such an experience, no amount of explanation is possible; for those who have, no explanation is necessary.
But around "normal people" you would never suspect what they've been through (with the exception of PTSD and obvious injuries).
I feel like it’s cringy and performative to do that. You never know what’s in people’s heads or what that callout means to them.
Treat veterans with respect. Whatever our political or moral beliefs are, every soldier or sailor made a personal sacrifice in service. Soldiers don’t make policy, and I wouldn’t assume what every individual believes or doesn’t.
The politics are important to understand, but it’s insensitive to bring this up in the context of an individual soldier’s account of this situation. Like, great work with the virtue signalling, you’re very clever and informed. Maybe try reading the room a bit and being a bit more compassionate toward people who have no influence in these politics?
There's several issues at stake here. The first is that these guys are under extreme amounts of stress. The level of stress the average soldier faces in a war zone (and that's what it is) is unimaginable to pretty much anyone that hasn't been there. I've heard stories of some things these guys are faced with, and none of it is pretty. I've had to take a step back from some of it, and I didn't even experience it directly. When you get an RPG shot at you that bounces off the front of your Humvee and by some miracle, it doesn't go off, you don't walk away from that the same. Having to stab someone repeatedly in order to save your own life. Shooting at actual people. Not some representation of people, but actual living, breathing human beings, and seeing the carnage wrought by your bullets. It's hard to even comprehend.
Now, imagine these guys come back and are generally able to continue to carry on some sort of a normal life at home. There's a lot of training involved here, and part of it is that you were simply ordered to do it. The chain of command is a real force, something the average soldier respects enough to go into a situation that very well could end their life. They also fear it. It's a force that's almost worse than death. Would you want to admit mistakes, or would you feel better about simply covering them up? This hypothetical soldier is already hardened enough to take the life of another person without feeling intense amounts of guilt. What is covering up a mistake compared to that?
There's also an insane amount of camaraderie amongst soldiers. These guys are willing to go into the line of fire to get back a piece of their buddy to send back home, because no soldier gets left behind. Would you risk your hide to get back part of your friend's dead body in order to have a proper burial? I don't know if I would, but that's a fairly ubiquitous feeling amongst soldiers. These guys will fight and die for their fellow soldiers, dead or alive. If you would already put your life on the line for someone, why wouldn't you help them cover something up?
Finally, the perception of people (civilians or combatants) from the view of a soldier is horribly skewed from what it is at home. They aren't really humans when they're on the battlefield. They're targets. The guilt doesn't really hit until after these guys get home. When you're in the midst of it, you're worried about your own survival, and the survival of those you care about. They don't seem to be particularly worried about the collateral damage. If they make a few mistakes, oh well. It's better than not pulling the trigger and finding out they were actually the enemy.
I'm not saying it's okay. It's certainly deplorable behavior. I'm just saying it's understandable, from where I sit. If I were put in a similar situation, I'm not sure how I would react. No one does, but the only way to prevent is to simply not go to war.
I'm a veteran. Served time in Kabul in 2008/09 with the US Army.
While I don't expect anyone to thank me for my service (tbh, it makes me uncomfortable), I'm offended that you find it so easy to throw all Soldiers into a single bucket to be judged based on your own ethical standards.
The fact of the matter is that we cannot choose our commander, or our mission, but we trust that our leaders do their best to do what's right...the same way we try to trust politicians to do their duties. While it might be true that there are many bad leaders, Soldiers, and politicians, that doesn't mean we're all as ignorant as you might think.
What did I learn in life threatening situations?
1. If I can survive that, I can survive anything.
2. I am more confident in making immediate decisions.
3. I trust myself, and I trust the people around me.
4. Hard work and discipline goes a long way.
While I have no interest in a lifetime of military service (I separated honorably in 2010), if it weren't for my time in the military I don't feel I would be nearly as willful, determined, and successful as I am today.
Also, I don't think after you get KIA in the armed forces, they hold a special funeral where your commanding officer tells your entire battalion that you were a coward and a poor soldier so justifiably you got shot.
This is a sentiment I also have had a hard time sharing and even understanding. The adulation and worship of the military that has risen in recent years is a strange bird indeed.
It's essentially unpatriotic to not consider every single service member a "hero", or fail to thank them for their service. It doesn't make sense to put the military on an unrealistic and imaginary pedestal.
I never served myself, but I've had a lot of family and friends who did serve and this is literally the first time I've seen anyone say anything like this.
My own experiences working with military leadership has also not corroborated any sense that they were competent or caring. Indeed, the impression I got was that they were universally just trying to wind out the clock to early retirement and use their relationships to get a cushy job while pulling down their pension at a major defense connector.
Why we get upset about the wargrave of someone in uniform, but dont think twice about the wargrave of someone not, eludes me.
Because that's what the country is willing to pay you for willing to die for the country, i.e. being a soldier. The military has to uphold a much higher standard for honoring the dead, or it will face problems finding new recruits.
Yes, it's often the wrong kind of deference, one that puts people on a pedestal but doesn't try to get to understand what's going on well enough to discuss war and military issues in a serious way.
I'm not going to take the bait and allow you to define that default behavior for Soldiers as that of a civilian killer.
The Soldiers know what they sign up for, and if you've never been scared for your life in a combat zone, I'd argue that you lack the perspective to that claim.
If a Soldier doesn't feel comfortable with their mission, they have many ways of dealing with it that do not involve being gagged by their superiors.
Yeah I get that point of view, "I'm here just following orders, no hard feelings". And that is part of what is weird to me in these stories from wars, that people are so malleable and empty and later talk big about respecting the other side. Well respect them and don't bomb/shoot missiles at them then. Also, the article sounds very artistic and fake, I'm not totally buying it.
Yeah, I am a (POG but offensive) veteran of that conflict (different unit), so I have similar thoughts but did not want to alienate the largely civilian audience with them.
Your last paragraph really goes to the heart of the matter. In order to earn my respect, soldiers need to fight for a cause that I consider necessary for humanity as a whole and one that absolutely requires the use of force. Serving any nation's interests alone is not enough even if that country's constitution includes some noble goals.
In my view, many veterans are simply misguided, confused, dangerous instruments of populist politicians. Some are criminals, and some others are true heroes. Throwing them all into the same "veterans" bucket and honoring them all doesn't do justice to any of them.
I'm also skeptical that things learned in a life threatening situation within a militarized kind of structure are very useful in other situations. In fact, many countries are blighted by military thinking and many noble causes have been perverted by that kind of mindset.
I doubt that enters into consideration, actually. The military spends vast amounts of money trying to protect all servicemembers' lives, and knowing a couple veterans, veterans who have lost people in combat, I can tell you that the cost of training and such don't even enter into their minds. I doubt the culture is as cold about the subject as you suggest, even if it is otherwise good reasoning.
Please stop and try to talk to some active military personnel before you just pass judgement like this. War is messy. This isn't a video game. The US military goes to extreme lengths in order to avoid collateral damage, including the blood of our own soldiers to protect as many innocents as possible. It's unfortunate that civilians will die but saying the military doesn't care is so beyond the pale that it just sounds like pure hysteria.
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