China has been waging economic war against the US for decades, stealing IP, syphoning off wealth from the American middle class in order to attempt and establish their own. All while throwing people in political prisons, threatening the territorial integrity of their neighbors, putting the whole of Africa in debtor's prison, etc. And it's only just begun.
You are asking with a straight face why the above isn't looked upon in the same way as the actions of Phillipines, Nigeria or Germany? Seriously?
Thanks for the comment. I agree with some of what you said. My objection is towards the recent (mostly in the west) hyper nationalistic attitude towards China, as-if everything they do is necessarily evil. Personally, I have no dog in this fight as being neither American nor Chinese (not that it should matter anyway :) ).
I'd like to counter some of your points though. I don't think the US could have checked the rise of all of those countries. The US (Allies) forced their way economically into Japan/Germany/Korea/etc after the war, in an act of pure self-interest - Reparations, forced exports, etc. They continued to benefit from the rise of those countries anyway.
China is strategic as you say, but they've always been isolated from the West. They've tried creating alliances (BRIC), which have been moderately successful. Now they're also trading with many heretofore neglected countries in Africa to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Western media calls it "the new colonialism". I happen to think that this is the west realizing that there is a chance, however slight, that they could be excluded from a large portion of the future growth markets. Maybe an emergence of the Silk Road? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road
I'm deeply unsettled by the economic relationship between China and the rest of the world, particularly with the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. Since the end of the Cold War, nuclear nations have tried at all costs to avoid arms races and armed conflict. However, war still happens, but on more subtle fronts.
China is waging economic warfare in earnest:
- Government subsidizes real estate investments in Western nations by Chinese investors, driving up real estate and turning a significant segment of the US population from homeowners to renters.
- Severely undercutting manufacturing prices for decades, to the point that Western nations have lost the ability to manufacture many products.
- Devaluing the Yuan and opening trade agreements around the world to protect itself from US sanctions and tariffs
- Purchasing billions annually in US treasury bonds (they hold around 30% of outstanding treasury bonds - over $1.1T)
At the same time, China's might is costing its 1.4B citizens dearly: unsafe or abusive working conditions, severe human rights abuses, and an Orwellian surveillance state.
I know the choice to do business with China is complex and nuanced. But I suggest prioritizing the moral implications--both to the world and to China's citizens--of a Chinese government with ever-increasing power when considering to what extent one should do business with China.
The blindspot most people have here towards atrocities committed by Western governments is really striking. The United States regularly invades other countries (causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq, destroying Libya), armed Sunni extremists in Syria, backs the Saudi dictatorship and the Israeli occupation, is economically strangling Iran and Venezuela, ran a global abduction and torture operation, still runs a global assassination program, and spies on the communications of billions of people around the world. Yet suddenly, everyone is up in arms about China as the threat to the world that must be stopped. This sudden paranoia just happens to coincide with American foreign policy interests - preventing the rise of a challenge to American hegemony.
A couple months ago it was Russia. Now it's China. In a year from now, it will be the next country it's convenient to US foreign policy to hate.
It's good to see the US responding with its own astro-turfing. I bet you don't even get paid for doing it.
I think you need to look at China with a more Chinese point of view, as that's how they look at themselves.
The US too do a lot of illegitamite things with their GDP.
They also ignore human rights and freedom of speech... And they invade other countries (not just move military into their waters)... They support dictators in Syria, and seem to intentionally destabilise parts of the world for economic advantage. The world isn't doomed now even with that far worse list being a reality, why do you think it will be if China gained more power?
As a non-US nor Chinese national, I find it interesting how the US keeps creating these artificial enemies. Of course the Chinese are not pro-America but they are very much self-contained and just interested in making money. Aside from internal old and new revolutions, China have also had a long history of not invading other countries.
I can understand that the US feels threatened by the massive competition created on the other side, but this is very rapidly leading to a similar situation like the anti-Japanese mentality that ended up stigmatizing a whole swath of people based on ethnicity alone.
Must be nice to be China. We (the USA) knew this and yet had no response. China's economic tentacles are so engained in our lives that we are left powerless. Sure we posture for the cameres, but we all know who's boss.
Meanwhile, we're dumping still more resources into war - money we don't have - and Russia and China are laughing.
What I think is happening is people are identifying machiavellian actions. Chinese actions aren't 'bad' per se- they are self-interested though- and often in a zero-sum context.
The US, despite many deplorable actions by its government over the years, consistently also supported good government initiatives, development initiatives, and generally bi-lateral open markets.
This has allowed well run countries access to a large export base with minimal barriers- hence the rise of countries like S. Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan and Germany post WWII, all of which could have been foreclosed by the hyperpower of the US if it so wished.
China is completely strategic in leveraging its money and industrial base into more military and political power. It has no problem in leveraging corrupt governments like Venezuela to secure more strategic influence, much like the US did during the Cold War, which at least had the goal and virtue of halting the spread of totalitarian Communism.
If a nation is going to act completely self-interested, rather than contribute to the greater good and trust that growing the market ensures more for everyone, it then behooves other countries to act in defense of their self interest in return and potentially act in a coordinated manner to constrain that power.
The US, despite its errors, delivers value to its partners. S. Korea, Japan, Germany have all directly benefitted from sheltering in the embrace of American military might. And as the Philippines has shown, the US is more than willing to withdraw from any country (other than Cuba, for historic reasons) that wants it gone.
The problem with China is that while 'protecting' themselves from 'evil West' they keep doing to other countries (in Africa and Asia) the same things they are protecting themselves from.
The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?
It so happens that whenever a country amasses more wealth than the US, they are maligned and considered evil. It happened in the 80s with Japan, and it is now happening with China. Except this time, the United States is broke. The US will Balkanize before anything happens to China.
I don't think that China has any interest in conquering the rest of World. They just want to be rich. They are stealing IP and spying. The fact that the US needs to use military force is a failure of policy.
Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.
I think that China is pulling on the US what the US did to the Soviet Union. The US bankrupted the Soviet Union with an arms race. China is doing it much more economically by spending 1/3 of the US. This is money that the US could be using to build a high speed rail network or educating its citizens.
Whoever simply makes more money from the goods they export. In this case, China has more to lose.
You forget that in China, you have a dictator who uses violence and fear to keep people in check. They are stuck with his foreign policy abilities, which many analysts will conclude, Xi fucking sucks, including those around him who aren't happy about him being a dictator and praising Mao (has anything ever good come out of ppl who idolize Mao?)
The US is on it's way to prosecuting a Russian KGB asset who has been compromised and being blackmailed to willfully corrupt in order to launder the billions that Putin and his buddies stole from his own fucking country. Thankfully, the US president doesn't have absolute power, cannot stay in power indefinitely, is not immune from the institutions that the American forefathers have created to keep the President in check, a continuity in all the core national security organs such as the CIA and NSA which prevents somebody like Xi from ever pulling the same shit, and cannot just roll over people with tanks and then make a stupid song about how much people love the Tianmen square.
In China, the trade war is having a far more profound impact on society and economy but you will never hear this and neither will the vast majority of citizens in China because information cannot flow freely and it's censored.
If China seems invulnerable and powerful, it's only because they specifically crafted their image in that manner. The fact is China is dysfunctional by and large and anyone who had exposure to their political system knows it can't continue no matter how many active measures they take.
All China is doing is giving money to politicians and/or dictators for their short term benefit and in return those politicians and dictators are giving China massive long term benefits.
Western countries shouldn’t be beating China at this game because it’s a fucked up game that is very obviously designed to play the decision makers’ interests against the interests of the nation and its people.
China has an authoritarian government that produces pollution that threatens the entire world, uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other countries, prints up to 282% of GDP [1] in order to buy their way into other countries real estate and companies, ignores human rights and free speech, and supports dictators in Russia and Africa. If China gets anymore powerful, the world is doomed. We need to curb commerce with China.
You are asking with a straight face why the above isn't looked upon in the same way as the actions of Phillipines, Nigeria or Germany? Seriously?
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