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> Well, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences

When the government is the agent of "consequences", that's exactly what freedom of speech is.



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>> Well, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences

> When the government is the agent of "consequences", that's exactly what freedom of speech is.

You're talking about the First Amendment, not freedom of speech.


>Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.

That's exactly what it is.


>Freedom of speech isn't freedom of consequences.

"There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech."


> Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences of that speech.

Yes, it does, actually. That is, in fact, the definition of freedom of speech.


> freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences

And that's where you're wrong. The federal government at least in principle guarantees no consequences from itself for merely communicating or publishing ideas.


> Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Actually, it means exactly that. In the United States, however, only the Congress and state legislatures are required to respect it.


> Freedom of speech does not imply freedom from consequence.

This is double speak. If the government throws you in jail for saying something, you could say the same thing. You had freedom of speech but not freedom from consequence. You're distorting the meaning of freedom of speech.


> Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences.

Actually, the freedom is freedom from consequences (other than speech in return or being listened to or not).


> "Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences." > I am free to say anything I like, but if I say the wrong thing, I get punished for it

Not quite. You did not quote a critical part -- being free from consequences from the government. And as governments, almost everywhere, give themselves a monopoly on the use of force "if I say the wrong thing I get punished for it" does not apply.

Thus whoever wants to punish you needs to petition the government for help and prove their case -- if I make false claims that you consider damaging you can ask the government to help and prove your case in a civil court (instead of, say, punching me in the snout to punish me directly). Just my 2c.


> Freedom of speech does not equal to freedom of consequence

Yes, it literally does. That is, in fact, the definition.


>A right to free speech does not mean speech without consequences.

Consequences for free speech == not free speech.

In the USA there's some extremely limited exceptions and those are the only places consequences can be had.


> Freedom of speech is by definition freedom from many kinds of consequences.

The only consequences the First Amendment explicitly protects you from are legislative ones. By definition, it only protects you from the government.


> Freedom of speech does not mean being free of consequences

I understand the point, but I hate this saying. After all, what more is the government throwing you in jail for speech than a “consequence”?

The spirit of “free speech” does not give you a free pass to impose draconian “consequences” in response to speech you don’t like.


> Freedom of speech does not mean “freedom from consequences”

Not even freedom from the consequence of going to prison for your speech?


> Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

How is the US different from any other country in history in that regard?

You can be in North Korea and freely criticize the government, you're just not gonna be "free from the consequences".

Turns out, being protected from the 'consequences' is what actually matters.


>My point is, social relations are complex. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence.

In general it does mean freedom from legal consequences and government interference, with few exceptions.


> Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences.

Yes it is; that's (most of) what "freedom" means. By your logic, if I would shoot you if you leave your house, then you would still be free to leave your house, 'just' not from the consequences.

Edit, a more proximate example: if the ministry of love will kindnap and torture you for criticising the government, your logic would hold that this does not violate freedom of speech, so long as they do not preemptivly prevent such criticism.


> free speech is not the same thing as consequence-free speech

Well, protected speech needs to free of consequences from the government.

But the author is right that protected speech does not need to be free of personal or business consequences.


>freedom of speech is not freedom of consequences

Usually when I see that statement it’s to make the point that freedom of speech (in the first amendment sense) protects you from government consequences, but not societal consequences. The government won’t stop you from saying something offensive, but your country club can kick you out for saying it.

I agree with you that this sense doesn’t really apply here, though.

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