How is that different than the folks who run an after market engine management system, or a custom fuel map on the OEM board? Car manufacturers tried to shut down after-market companies doing this with the same line of argument as well back in the day and lost. We are all still waiting for the car-pocalypse it would cause if permitted to go on.
The reality is level 5 is a pipe-dream except for a few situations and I don't expect to ever see it widespread until they resolve the situation where the road is snow-covered, ditch is full of snow so can not be easily identified, it's snowing moderately heavy and there's oncoming traffic, while driving at night. Oh, and it's in a rural area so maps are somewhat lacking in accuracy. When that happens I'll believe it.
I think it’s unlikely we’ll see level 4 driving in fewer than 10 years, and I don’t think we’ll ever see level 5. It’s a really hard 80/20 problem. I think most peeler are going to be pretty happy with what you can get in a lot of vehicles today.
Disclosure: I worked for an Auto OEM but didn’t have any knowledge or communications with any folks working in the space.
> I just wonder how (or if) they’ll make the shift to level 3 without angering customers. Or, if they’ll choose to stay at level 2 so they can have more features.
I don't know whether it would be a meaningful business goal to "make the shift to level 3". The business goals would be more nuanced than that, since approximately zero actual customers know or care what level 3 is. And the line between "you must watch what the car is doing and be prepared to take over" and "you must be prepared to take over if the car asks you to" is going to get blurred by manufacturers (and the distinction isn't that obvious to an average user in the first place).
Level 3 is absolutely not "you don't have to pay attention". SAE defines it as "when the feature requests, you must drive". Characterising that as "you don't have to pay attention" is what makes this potentially the riskiest level.
Right, so why do you think consumers wouldn't want level 3 if you think a lot of people would use and enjoy it?
I definitely agree it won't be perfect, some people would indeed have a real bad time, but that still doesn't mean an improvement over the current status quo wouldn't be a seller. Perfect is the enemy of good, after all.
Current level 1 and 2 systems wouldn't have been nearly as popular as they are if consumers didn't want them. Honda wouldn't have made it standard on all their cars, etc.
Time and again this company proves that it still doesn't realise what cars currently are, including the ones they try to make. Maybe they should just not release this stuff until they actually have a really, really reliable level 5 autonomy.
I do not know why you are being downvoted. I agree that level 2 autonomy is not cutting edge - it is an option level for nearly every car manufacturer.
This is a legitimate criticism. I can't for the life of me, figure out why manufacturers are still artificially segmenting their products with software. Some cars have had fairly capable lane tracing since the 2019 MY, and others still don't for the 2021 MY.
They already demonstrated the technology when they spontaneously upgraded cars in Florida during the hurricane.
Back then, it was a move benefiting drivers (and rightfully applauded), so no one seemed to stop and think how they were even able to do this. Now we're seeing the same technology in action to the detriment of the driver.
So now its all computerized. You don't get a knob on the dash to personalize exactly how much fuel to air you want. The OEM sets that and you go on about your day without ever caring.
TLdr: Once a next level of assisted driving is released, customers would need to take the car back to get the missing components installed. I'm not sure that's so controversial, tbh.
I mean.. in a hybrid I dont care. I want the car to control it, but I want to know that it's being controlled.
If the car fuel economy is getting worse I will use the data feedback to collate anecdotal evidence to deliver to my mechanic.
I might pay a visit to my mechanic sooner if I see strange behavior. I t might save me money, it might save a life.... but with a fake ass dashboard feeding me bullshit readings It's not in the slightest bit useful.
What about all the existing cars on the road? What about manual cars that can be push started? Who installs and certifies these, they need calibrated frequently, they are extremely simple to bypass for anyone with even basic vehicle knowledge.
The tracking goes much deeper than that [1] and it isn't the only part of the ongoing overdigitalization of cars. Access to diagnostics and the ability to repair them yourself have suffered a lot with the introduction of EVs. Parts and manuals are harder to find for those than ICE cars. Mercedes won't even let you open the hood of the EQS you bought from them.
I get that it's not just emergency breaking. My point though is that by 2022, all new cars are going to have both the sensors and the processing hardware needed to do this. So most new cars will probably have this sort of functionality, even if they're not required to by this specific industry agreement. (Lots of cars already have this, including ones that aren't even that expensive, e.g. pretty much any Subaru.)
I have a Honda that needs that map update. That map software is some of the oldest, shittiest joystick and button driven crap ever slapped on a car. I'm talking 2005-ish vintage on a 2015 car. There's clearly a tension between hardware and that new software stuff, in their mind.
I do find it interesting because conversely in a car I absolutely do prefer an OEM integrated infotainment system as opposed to after market.
Other things being equal, I would agree. But the auto industry has such a bad record of being irresponsible about security and safety issues, and those who supposedly regulate the industry have so often failed to deal with real and potentially dangerous problems, that I have become wary of anything to do with "connected" vehicles and anything that integrates the essential engineering around vehicle control with non-essential systems of any kind. Sadly, modern car electronics are not only designed but in some cases even legally required to blur that line, and given all the other improvements over older vehicles, it seems inevitable that I will soon have to ride in vehicles I literally don't want to trust with my life.
I have gone out of my way to avoid "smart" TVs and similar devices in my home and office, but I fear the options for alternatives there will also become limited unless and until some form of effective regulation makes the spy-on-your-customers business model toxic.
This should be optional, not mandatory technology for new cars. I don't want a cellular module that reports its location in any of my cars, new or old, so why is this being forced through?
The argument of improved safety is a poor one. You could use the same argument to make 8 air bags mandatory minimum, demand that only 5-star rated cars can be sold, that cars have ejection seats, tow a mobile clinic with a doctor and a nurse, or about a million other things that would objectively improve car safety but also make cars further unavailable to many people.
And this will get misused too. Today it may send location after a collision; tomorrow's firmware update can easily change that. And once users have the hardware, software features will follow.
Also, the info that is exposed to end-users is awful and seems to be getting worse. We have a 2021 Volvo and it has TPMS, but the TPMS info screen on the large infotainment display shows /4 orange dots, one on each tire/ when the pressure in ANY is too low. It doesn’t tell you the actual pressures, or what they should be, just that it needs maintenance. My other 2017 Chevy tells me the ~real-time (takes a few seconds to change) pressures of all 4 tires. I know that the Volvo has this info, and a screen more than capable of displaying that info, yet someone chose instead to treat the user like an absolutely helpless idiot and basically suggest that they should stop using the vehicle immediately and have it flatbed trailered to the nearest dealership /because a single tire is a few PSI low/.
I understand having idiot lights for idiots, and sure, do that on the dash, but please give end users any way to get some actual info. It’s the “door ajar” when the vehicle knows which door but doesn’t disambiguate to the user. It’s bad design, or malicious design to boost dealer profits.
The reality is level 5 is a pipe-dream except for a few situations and I don't expect to ever see it widespread until they resolve the situation where the road is snow-covered, ditch is full of snow so can not be easily identified, it's snowing moderately heavy and there's oncoming traffic, while driving at night. Oh, and it's in a rural area so maps are somewhat lacking in accuracy. When that happens I'll believe it.
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