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Engineers should be required to take a full-assed ethics course during undergrad.


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Why? The engineering department version of ethics was a required class at my undergrad and it was a total waste of time.

I strongly believe that engineers should have mandatory ethics classes. Then when they accept a BigTech salary, at least they would know that they trade their ethics for their salary.

I find it alarming how many engineers just don't ever think about the impact technology has on the world.


If engineers cared about ethics, we would know it.

There are engineering ethics courses?

I'm glad Ethics for Engineers wasn't an elective but mandatory when I was in school.

Education. Engineering and science schools should have good and rigorous ethics courses. Taught by actual philosophers and engineers on the field dealing with ethically sensitive issues (like writing a real-time OS for an airplane, self-driving car etc). An engineer or a scientist shouldn't graduate without the ability to reason about the social and ethical implications of their jobs. Engineers, physicists, scientists, social workers change the world more than most individuals and thus they need the ability to reason ethically more than most individuals.

Do you have a source for ethics education and engineering? I've never heard of this being something that most engineers are taught (in the US).

Agreed. I only mention engineering students as my only experience with ethics classes are in that domain. However it's still a good example for engineers, particularly how the design failures resulted in deaths, the role of whistleblowers and how disastrous self-certification can be.

The point isn't ethics courses.

The point is institutional protection for engineers who are ordered to do unethical things and refuse.


Most engineering degrees in the US require an ethics course (I think it might be a ABET requirement). Unfortunately a lot the course work is pretty boring. It doesn't really give you room to challenge your narrative but rather explain what you should do and should not do according to our "oath". They also give a ton of examples of what corruption is and you have to write a couple papers explaining your point of view.

If the department had been in the School of Engineering, pretty sure there would have been a mandatory ethics class.

I don't know how common this is in general, but an ethics course was a required part of the engineering core curricula at my school (Case Western Reserve).

Ultimately, though, an ethics course isn't going to make people stand up for their ethics. A professional organization along the lines of the American Medical Association (at least in terms of political strength) that stands up for its members and censures those who behave unethically would do far more for strengthening engineering ethics collectively.

When there are few professional consequences for unethical behavior at the behest of your employer, taking an ethical stand is ineffective and quixotic. You will be fired and another engineer will likely complete the job.


Every ABET accredited engineering school in the US is required to give a class on professional ethics as part of the degree. Doesn't seem to have much effect.

I had an ethics module in my Engineering degree. I'm guessing you didn't.

Is that so; it's been a while since I've taken my engineering ethics courses so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Thanks for letting me know.

In my case, the ethics course we had to take was the same one engineers take.

My university had us take the same ethics class as civil engineers, etc., and there was plenty of case study material where lax standards in engineering (including computer systems) had killed people. We can live without technology, but it's a lot harder to live when the optional technology that a lot of people choose to use starts killing people. It's important for engineers to understand the role they can and should play in advocating for safety and high standards.

It needn't be a focus of the education, but it should be a concern of universities to ensure students graduate with an understanding of the importance of integrity for society's good and how they can ensure their projects are ethical.


Most engineering schools have classes about engineering ethics. When I was an undergrad in UC Berkeley, we not only had an ethics class (called "Social Implications of Computing") but also every single class had ethics sections, e.g. if you're working in a mission critical OS don't forget what happened to Therac-25, if you're writing ML Algorithms don't forget what happened to Uber etc... These were actual parts of classes, mentioned by professors. I think ethics is a very important part of both engineering and being a human being. You cannot make bridges and not be responsible if they collapse. You cannot make an OS and not be responsible if a bug kills bunch of people. Similarly, you cannot write fraud software and go by your day because that's what your boss ordered you to do. Engineers are highly skilled workers and we must have enough consciousness to deny doing a job if it's not ethical. Otherwise, it's just banality of evil.

While it may be a problem that people „unthinkingly do what they are told to do“, I don‘t think requiring engineers to take an ethics class will fix that.

What it does is give people the tools to properly articulate thoughts they are already having. It won‘t make someone an activist who just doesn‘t care.

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