> If you want to convince Japanese people, you can't use the tactics you used in other cultures. You need to understand Japanese culture and you need to be very careful because if you get it wrong it will backfire spectacularly.
In my experience, these tactics don't really work in any culture.
>Isn't there any room for respect for traditional Japanese culture?
Is culture a blanket excuse for bad behavior? Just because a country has a history of doing something doesn't make it worth respecting. Bad things are bad no matter how long they've been practiced.
> It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves.
This just sounds like reverse Orientalism. Japanese culture might have a bigger emphasis on civic duties, but on a national level it's clearly a hit and miss: consider that WW2 apologists are still popular in some sector of Japan. (And I'm not trying to blame Japan here, I mean, most countries aren't much better.)
> no smart person regardless of culture would be impressed or fooled with density as a proof of hard work
I am far from being a person who has deeply studied Japanese culture (I just happen to live here) but my impression is that it is so ingrained in the mentality that it works at a subconscious level.
> There is also something else I notice: some people will decide they will not understand you because you look/are foreign no matter how hard you try or even if you don't make not many mistakes. There is a famous video about that[1]
That was my impression when I'd studied in Japan decades ago (but TBH it was so long ago I can't really recall if it had happened to me personally), however it seems that it is getting better. I actually saw your linked video by way of another [0], and the people he'd interviews generally finds the scenario ridiculous, too. Moreover, there's a follow-up video [1] where he put the premise* to the test, and majority of people replied in Japanese back.
(*) TBF, the various sampling / editorial biases aside, his setup was not quite right in the follow-up video. He should have had a pair, one Japanese and one foreigner, had the foreigner ask for directions, and see if the test subjects a) replied back in Japanese, and b) repeatedly directed their replies to the Japanese of the pair.
> Not sure that can be assumed to be a universal truth. In most cases, in Japan, expressing feeling is sign of a problem. And often one reason ( of many ) for the isolation foreigners can face in Japanese society. While trying to 'express' themselves, they're actually making others feel uncomfortable by doing so, or trying to convey things that have been already understood, no need 'to explain the joke', you're ruining it.
That's certainly true -- differences in self-expression is often cited when talking to other foreigners about these kinds of issues.
Oh and I did not assume you were trying to pain an overly rosy picture of japanese culture -- I agree that they certainly emote less, and need to emote less because of the different cultural norms.
> I prefer someone blunt and clear who will say what they mean. I don’t care if they don’t say it in the nicest of ways, as long as they say it. Speak your heart!
If that's the author's preference (fair enough), then Japan is not the right place for them (in that respect). Intercultural Communication 101. Either learn to deal with it and stop taking it personally, or move somewhere else. (Or, sure, go on a one-person quest to change Japanese culture - what could go wrong.)
> Japan is, of course, just a place. The people there are ordinary humans. Fetishizing a particular culture is both cringeworthy and genuinely harmful. Their country and society have plenty of problems, just like any other. There is nothing magical about Japan or any other place.
Japan, by your own description, isn’t just a place. It’s the place of a people who share a long and deep culture. If you substituted New Yorkers for Japanese in Tokyo, it wouldn’t be like Tokyo for very long! (Feeling like a “clumsy, nasty barbarian” is certainly an apropos description of how I feel returning to New York after visiting Tokyo.)
Most Japanese wouldn’t describe Japan as “just a place.” A Japanese acquaintance of mine (a law professor) and I were once discussing the issue of government corruption in Asia. My acquaintance dug into some 400 years of Japanese history to explain why it had less problems with corruption than China, next door.
Of course it’s not “magical”—just as there is nothing magical about Apple under Steve Jobs. But it is an achievement—the achievement of a group of people who share a particular culture. When my dad was born in 1951, Japan had a GDP per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) similar to Bangladesh’s today. Within a generation they had become a first world country. You shouldn’t fetishize their culture, but it’s okay to marvel at their achievement!
>If Culture B was totally fine with adopting Culture A and adding to the culture rather than demanding things be done their way "culture killing" wouldn't be as large of an issue.
What if those in Culture B face problems? Should they not ask for change? What if those in the culture are citizens? The idea that people can't ask or demand for things just because they are of a different culture is ridiculous.
>and there are often calls to censor things that are seen as being totally innocent in Japan.
What are you referring to? At a guess, I'd say lolicon/shotacon pornography (which often faces calls to be censored and has been censored in many countries), which is hardly seen as innocent anywhere. That said, I very strongly disagree with the idea of censoring it.
I find the idea of 'culture clash' to be ridiculous, and the reason is that even within cultures there is a huge aemount of variation as to how things should be done. So why are those people legitimate (such as the Japanese Marxists) but those of a different culture are not legitimate? How is 'culture' even defined, and what elements must one have of it?
It's a very nebulous concept so I do not think that drawing the lines you are drawing makes much sense with regard to actual human interactions. Or I could be misinterpreting you, in which case please correct me. I'd say that ignoring people who are complaining is a very dangerous thing to do, in terms of the happiness and benefit for all in society, not just those of your tribe/race/hair colour/football team/culture.
I politely disagree with your observations, though I acknowledge that I may not be right, I have observed and discussed this behaviour dozens of times with Japanese people in Japan for over twenty years and most find your parent's observation to be correct.
Please don't call people a racist for espousing reasonable views that you don't happen to believe.
> I think you do know exactly nothing. What you believe you do know may be completely wrong since you have no first hand experience and read things filtered through the cultural biases that exist in each of us
So that applies to you and your view too, right? Or is it only other people's views?
> and when applied to another culture, finds ways to on the one hand exoticize it, on the other to denigrate it and it's people.
That's an extremely presumptuous and arrogant statement to make.
As if that was the only possible kind of response.
And speaking of my case, I have known many Japanese people and have like them a lot, and I like a lot about Japanese culture. I am half Asian and hardly exoticize the place or culture
Japan is perishing because of the values it currently has. Pseudo-feudal society that imitates the samurai-ruled commoners who must sacrifice their lives for one zaibatsu or the other, never-ending work in which they must karoshi themselves out for the 'ganbare' principle, extreme xenophobia that even afflicts Japanese that move from one region to another, leave aside immigrants.
You definitely don't have to share his values. His values may not even be suitable for you. But you definitely must stop having the current values that you have since they are literally eradicating your society in an a case that has not been ever seen in modern age before.
> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan
The correct modern terminology for that is racism.
Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.
It's obvious that there's a distinction between technological change and social/cultural change.
Japanese strike me as very conservative when it comes to social/cultural shifts. Compare it to Taiwan, for example, and there is a big difference (to be fair, Taiwan probably has less cultural history to begin with).
To clarify, my comment above was primarily meant to point out that the behaviour we're discussing is not something unique to the Japanese. I felt it was a bit unfair to single them out for having a culture that continuously reminds people of being foreign, when everybody else does it also (well- as far as I can tell). I didn't say whether I thought it's a problem or not.
So- is it? I guess that will depend a lot on the situation, won't it? For myself I've been in both kinds of situations, where it was a problem and where it wasn't. Say, when I first moved here I worked menial jobs and the people I worked with tended to not care much about social niceties (although there may have been other reasons I attracted the wrong kind of attention, by some). Nowadays, I'm a PhD researcher, so it would be a really big surprise if someone brought up the fact I'm not from around here as a disadvantage; most people I work with are not, anyway.
It's just that, there are situations were anything that singles you out can spell trouble- and being foreign singles you out. In such situations, you have to tread carefully in a way that locals don't.
To be perfectly clear, I personally take things in my stride and I generally fare very well. But not everyone is the same as me, neither have I always been as confident and self-assured as I am now. The target is, I think, to have an environment (a society, if you will) that accommodates all kinds of people, those who aren't bothered as well as those who might be.
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Edit: "neither have I always been as confident and self-assured as I am now". Actually, now that I think of it, I always have. I'm a tough cookie :)
> So an argument that people necessarily need Big Brother to behave falls flat on its face.
Japanese culture is very different from pretty much any other culture. They respect each other and their country and environment. (except whales) They are raised from a young age to look after each other and respect each other. Something the rest of the world could learn from.
In my experience, these tactics don't really work in any culture.
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