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> they are not monetizing the service which probably means they are collecting data from it to use in some way

You're not wrong. I feel it's worth pointing out, however, that the opposite (paid/monetised -> not collecting data) is frequently assumed when it really doesn't hold.



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>Well, here is X trying to make a product you pay for.

No, this is an attempt to have it both ways. To do data collection / data brokerage and ALSO charge users for the service.


> I would hope they don't use free or cheap services that need data harvesting as part of the revenue.

Because paying for a service means your data won't be sold?


"'The situation changes somewhat if you pay with money for service instead with data.'"

In most cases that means you pay and they still monetize your data to the fullest


> This may be true but it doesn’t justify the monetization of user data.

I don't understand your point. If it can technically be done and it is valuable in any way, it WILL be done. No matter the justification.


> This is wrong. Paying for a service does not automatically mean the service doesn't take your personal information.

No, but it does mean the developer has a lot of incentive to write software for you as opposed to catering to the advertising companies who are paying their bills.


> If a service is paid while allowing itself to engage in data mining and monetisation, it will lose most of its paying users

Will it lose some users? Sure. Most? No.

You can buy a tv costing 4 digits that happily will harvest data and show you ads.


> The idea of paying for use instead of data collection is a good one.

This is not what this is.

It's paying or seeing ads. Tracking is done anyway. For the ads they do still sell on other platforms.

What should really be the case is to have untracked ads as an option instead of targeted ones.


> using their paid service without paying is bad

Software engineers on HN or anywhere else certainly do not tend to agree that stripping ads from freely-available content is equivalent to using a paid service without paying.


> that they charge for

I think it is a free service. They are a non-profit organisation.


> we see users just outright refusing to pay

I’m not convinced this is true. Surveillance/Market insight/whatever is just too lucrative.

There’s plenty of examples of company’s that make a living by charging for a service but for a company like facebook, for example, excluding users runs counter to their whole business model.

“Charging” customers is hassle. If you can find a way to monetise without all that icky hassle, you will.


> Personally I prefer to pay someone for a product/service directly.

Sure, but the vast majority of users do not want to pay for the vast majority of internet content.


> Ultimately, free is the culprit.

No, it isn't. Consumer data being sold in a completely unregulated manner is the culprit.

Paying for the product or service has nothing to do with whether or not your data is being sold.


>These companies are providing services for free.

No. These companies are not offering a free service. You not paying them directly does not mean it’s free. This is a comment that shouldn’t have to be made here, we all know how they make money and the price you pay to use the service.


> Well, monetize through ads is something expected in any free platform that does not belong to a non-profit organization.

You could also, you know, charge money for the service.


> This is why we should pay for services.

You know what business scoundrels like more than profiting off your data and attention? Getting direct revenue from you, especially recurring one via subscription, and profiting off your data and attention on top of that. More than that, your choice to pay for a good or service demonstrates you have disposable income and are willing to spend it - i.e. a high-value target for advertisers.

> They pay me a subscription, I don't even want their data. It's a liability if anything.

This is (a big part of) the solution - but personal data isn't enough of a liability yet to deter the scoundrels.


> Its a free service, you're kinda expected to suspect they're attempting to make money by some other means.

No, you are not, and you should not be expected to suspect that. This is moral fatalism.


"""This article operates under the very incorrect assumption that paid services never shut down and free services are never carried on by their purchasers."""

No, it operates under the very correct assumption that paid services are MUCH LESS common to shut down.

(I shudder every f&%&^n time someone doesn't understand a generalization, and thinks that a few counter arguments disprove a statistical rule).

"""See Flickr or YouTube or PayPal or Skype or Picnik or Grand Central or Picasa or Siri or mySpace or FriendFeed or FeedBurner or even pinboard's biggest competitor Delicious for examples of the latter."""

He is not saying that "free services are never carried on by their purchasers", he is saying that free services with no monetization model are in most cases not carried on by their purchasers.

Not familiar with all of them, but Flickr, Paypal and Skype, all have ways of making money and paid accounts. And Youtube has ads too (don't know about Picassa).


> if users would simply pay for the services they use there would be no point to track and analyze ... behavior.

Couldn't they make even more profit by doing both? If they find the optimal balance?

I pay for cable TV, and still see lots of ads, so I guess I'm cynical.


> Attempting to monetize it feels... wrong

On a long enough timeline, all free and libre services done out of the good will and charitable efforts of contributors and maintainers, will eventually succumb to some sort of monetization strategy. I know in my case, and last time I checked, I don't work for free.

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