Good point. That was a big reason I started my education at a community college. Classes were cheap, small, and there was and agreement for automatic admission with full credit transfer between that CC and the university I wanted to attend.

In addition, the CC was also 10 miles from my home instead of the 35 miles to the university campus, which was one more reason. For me, it was a no-brainer to go to the CC for two years and then transfer.

Another positive about CCs is since they are so cheap you can actually take your time a find the right major for you. I tried a bunch of different stuff before something stuck and with the exception of opportunity costs that extra exploration cost me about $500. I consider that a pretty good deal.

I don't know why more people don't go that route. It's like $26 dollars a unit, the books cost more than the classes do. The professors were dope as hell - especially in the hard sciences. Plus you didn't have a lecture hall with 150, 200 kids in it - you had 30, 50 for a "big" class. The instructors always showed up to office hours, they all spoke great English, and actually cared if you understood the material - they weren't ditching class to prepare for a conference, or having a TA do the actual teaching. They genuinely liked their subjects.

Going to CC is practically a secret weapon. I'd hire a CC graduate over a "bootcamp" graduate any day of the week.

[shrugs]

> Our cc’s are all impacted and getting the classes you need is nearly impossible. Many people end up taking 3 years to graduate.

This problem is not unique to CCs; this happens at all public schools. The solution is to plan your schedule years ahead. Most school officials readily give this advice, it's not a secret.

> When you do transfer to a bachelors program, you’ll find that your cc was missing a lot of the pre reqs you need for your major (depending on your major). I’ve seen a lot of cc students at UC schools have to go back and take freshman and sophmore level classes. (total could end up taking 6 years overall)

There's almost always a test you can take after transfer to verify your level of play.

When I transferred to a UC, they wanted me to retake some levels in my foreign language that I'd already completed at CC. Or, they offered a test I could take to jump ahead. I took the test. They saw that I could hang at the higher level. They let me enroll.

I wanted to take an upper-level writing course without taking the underclass pre-reqs. The program asked me to audition by submitting some samples. I did. They saw that I could hang at the higher level. They let me enroll.

This is fair and reasonable policy. UCs are world-class universities and they have a responsibility to maintain that standard. CCs offer everything needed to prosper after transfer (I think this is state policy), but it's up to students to make the most of their CC time.

> All the other students when you transfer are already friends and have relationships with the professors and local businesses. Whose going to get the prestigious research position, the new guy or the one whose been bonding and proving themselves to the professor for 2 years? Same goes for internships.

These are public schools. You are invisible to professors and faculty for the first couple years. I was better known to my programs after taking my transfer tests than most of the students who'd already been there for years. As far as friends go, again, these are public schools. They're too huge for any one clique to run the roost. Making friends has less to do with your transfer status and more to do with...your ability to make friends.

> Who you spend time with shapes who you are. If you are a bright individual, it can be frustrating or depressing being around some of your peers in CC. My girlfriend took an online cc class where they had to submit a paragraph to their class forum. Two students literally copy and pasted her response word for word.

I took vector calculus at my CC. Do you assume my vector calculus class was full of idiots just because it was at the CC?

What still surprises me most about CC was the large population of incredibly bright people I found there. They're not hard to find, but it's incumbent upon the student to put themselves in the more challenging classes where they congregate.

I’ve hired a few people who took this path and every one has been outstanding. Unfortunately people mostly seem mbarassed to admit they did this.

I fully agree that the 2 years of community college + 2 years of UC is one of the most cost effective ways to earn your degree. Though given that 2 years of UCLA (where I went to school) would cost ~$30k in tuition and that you have 2 more years of salary if you graduate from Make School, it ends up being comparable on an ROI basis.

First of all, community college is a depressing place to be. It's like a cross between high school, juvenile hall, and the DMV.

For example, a lot of the students at community colleges are stoners who are only there because their parents have conditioned their financial support on college attendance, and those are the people who you will have to compete with for enrollment in impacted classes, and who will drag down your grade on group projects. The labs, libraries, and other facilities are pretty much a joke compared to what you get to use at a good UC or CSU, or even a good public high school. You are unlikely to develop personal connections that will help you build your career.

On top of all of that, transferring is not as easy at it might seem. You have to watch the transfer office like a hawk to make sure they don't screw up your paperwork. I had a guaranteed admission agreement, and even so, I caught multiple mistakes and miscommunications between the community college and the UC which would have voided my agreement, or delayed my transfer for a year. De Anza has one of the highest transfer rates in the country, so I can only assume things are even worse at other schools.

While you are trying to push your way through two years (at least) in this depressing and dysfunctional environment, your friends at CSUs and UCs will be enjoying higher quality classmates, instructors, and facilities, living the real college life, getting cool internships and other career opportunities, and making personal connections with people who will be successful in their fields.

In the end, the amount of money I saved by going to community college and transferring to a UC, compared to going to a UC for four years, adds up to the cost of a new Toyota Camry. That's a trivial amount of money, now that I look back on it years later -- a couple hundred dollars a month in student loans over a standard repayment term. Even people who are repaying their student loans don't bat an eye at spending that kind of money on a car, but for some reason people are apprehensive about spending it on two years of quality education and life experiences.

This may seem excessively negative, but I think it is a necessary counterbalance to a lot of the advice I see when this kind of issue comes up.

- Our cc’s are all impacted and getting the classes you need is nearly impossible. Many people end up taking 3 years to graduate.

- When you do transfer to a bachelors program, you’ll find that your cc was missing a lot of the pre reqs you need for your major (depending on your major). I’ve seen a lot of cc students at UC schools have to go back and take freshman and sophmore level classes. (total could end up taking 6 years overall)

- All the other students when you transfer are already friends and have relationships with the professors and local businesses. Whose going to get the prestigious research position, the new guy or the one whose been bonding and proving themselves to the professor for 2 years? Same goes for internships.

- Who you spend time with shapes who you are. If you are a bright individual, it can be frustrating or depressing being around some of your peers in CC. My girlfriend took an online cc class where they had to submit a paragraph to their class forum. Two students literally copy and pasted her response word for word.

It's just a lot less fun than going to a Big 10 school or the big name school.

In theory, that's great, but in practice the CC is underfunded and there aren't enough classes offered, so it takes 3, or even 4 years, to get into all the classes required for the transfer. Upon getting into UCLA they find their department won't accept some of their CC classes for credit because they weren't rigorous enough, or that they need some prereqs that weren't offered at the CC, and it will actually take 3 years at the UC campus to graduate. They enter the workforce 2 years after their peers who went straight to 4 year universities and the 3 years of CC is easily more expensive than the 1 year of UC tuition saved, especially considering they fed and housed themselves for 2 extra years. Their lifetime earnings drop or they have to retire later.

None of this is their fault, either: The CC eagerly offers the few students who successfully (and luckily) navigated the class scheduling and credit transferring bureaucracy as the mode, and a 17 year old kid -- likely the first in their family to attend college -- isn't equipped to evaluate those claims. After all, why would they distrust the CC? They're told they'll save money and graduate at the same time, with the same degree, as their friends who went straight to UCLA and there's no reason for them to doubt that.

While I'm sure many CCs are perfectly good places to spend the first 2 years of college, there are at least some tar pits out there. It's a real shame, too.

1) Quality of the classes (most classes at all schools are pretty much made to fit the abilities and interests of the average student, which can be a big negative in transferring or even getting hired.)

2) Time to, and odds of, completion can lower for CC > Uni transfers, mostly depending on how well the 4-year schools partner with CCs in enabling transfers.

> Luckily with the internet you can study a lot of things for free...no need to pay some overpriced college anymore.

It's only rarely about what you know. The first step in the door is often gate-kept by a credential requirement.