> I would pay for my car to NEVER update without my express approval.
In case you were wondering, you opt-in to the updates from Tesla and can totally disable all connectivity if you so choose.
Virtually no one does this, because the upgrades are extremely valuable to Tesla owners and make the car accelerate quicker, brake faster, safer (constantly improving things like AEB and lane departure warning), longer range, more comfortable (suspension upgrades), and better in many other ways from minor usability tweaks (position of the phone icon in the launcher) to major functional upgrades.
OTA updates are also the only responsible way to deliver autonomous functionality.
It’s a huge asset and differentiator for Tesla. That’s not to say it won’t have detractors. E.g. Some people prefer driving stick.
Good to know -- so users can simply elect not to accept updates? What about when Tesla changes the operating characteristics of the car, is that always optional? Is accepting the change this article is talking about optional?
If so, then I have no objections, although I will still never buy a Tesla or any other vehicle that phones home.
> Updates push us forward. It comes with risks but so far the rewards outweight the risk.
Perhaps. But as long as it's the owners who get to decide whether or not the risk is worth it, that's fine. If the manufacturer gets to make that decision, that's not fine at all.
> That being said, one thing that I like about my spouses Tesla is that it reliably gets OTA updates that adds features and improves functionality.
As someone who builds software for a living, and has introduced regressions once or twice into production, I would not like my safety-critical system to live on the bleeding edge of functionality.
It's great if other people are interested in being testers for every X.0 release, but I'd rather not be one of them.
> Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait
Case in point, the current release that has been rolling out over the last week or so definitely has some ominous bug reports.
But on the other hand, updates aren't forced, you can cancel them when they're offered.
It's a double edge sword, really. I've had several cars that desperately needed an update but it was impossible to get. I think I lean in the direction of having OTA updates available, as long as I maintain 100% control of them. And I need to be able to control data from my car going into the cloud. I think Tesla has both of these covered, though it could be implemented more elegantly.
> - What if some external accessory or change was made without the owner's knowledge?. As cars become more software dependent, steps like these might become necessary.
Yes, someone could tamper with your car, which would be bad.
But honestly Tesla is the one who changes things without the owner's knowledge. Updates - when they give any description at all - describe bug fixes and upgrades. However look at the tesla forums and you'll find that tesla software updates are just as likely to downgrade your car.
I can recall updates lowering the range, reducing regen, lowering performance and very very frequently breaking things that work fine.
And lots of people were perfectly happy with older versions of the software and have declined updates -- only to have them forced on the car. That seems to be a good way to make an enemy.
> I just want to remind that Teslas with AP1 don't get no more updates. That is breaking his promise that all Teslas, all as in ALL, will improve by OTA. That is how old?
This is simply incorrect. Their Autopilot software doesn't really get updated, but the majority of recent feature additions are probably not Autopilot-related. All of these changes are still provided to Teslas from 2012, for instance.
> You talk about OTA updates as if that’s some huge technological moat? Hell, cars have been receiving very frequent software updates for over a decade.
I think OTAs are a moat but highlight an important incentive difference. Traditional automakers want to sell you next year's model of the car. Tesla seems like they want your car to get better over time.
Perhaps it is organizational cruft or the dealer network but consider even the simple case of adaptive cruise control systems in cars today that have radar + cameras. Most of those systems bounce between lanes and can't even stay centered well. This is something that could be a software fix but you'll have to wait for the next N models when they redesign the car to see it.
Infotainment systems are another example - they are almost universally crappy and it is rare to get updates OTA. Shipping a car with capable hardware and slowly improving software capability imo is a smarter long-term approach.
> There’s no way the hardware on my car is the limiting factor, but I will never get any of these improvements. Tesla is still the only car maker to decide that car software can be treated like almost any other software people use, and actually updated independently of the hardware.
You also won't have any features removed, like Tesla has also pioneered.
> If Tesla can update the software in a fleet of vehicles remotely why can’t I update the software in a power plant?
OTA updates to car firmware is widely considered to be a stupidly irresponsible idea. I don't think we should justify doing risky things by pointing at other people doing risky things, who only get away with that because of clout and regulatory wheels turning slowly.
> If you’re not comfortable with that feature then don’t buy the car.
This was the only point I was actually making, yes.
> But don’t go spewing certifiable nonsense about how Tesla backdoors your car and steals your personal data for profit.
Aside from niggles about what constitutes a "back door", I was not doing that.
> There is nothing in their terms or privacy policy that indicates this is happening, and data collection that could expose PII is opt in.
None of that is actually reassuring, but the reason why is a whole other, very large, discussion.
> The way I see it, you’re essentially uncomfortable with Tesla being able to update the software on your system (which is also opt in BTW).
No, I'm uncomfortable with the data connection to Tesla. I'm uncomfortable with their data collection, and I'm uncomfortable with them having any sort of control over the car.
> Do you feel this way about all products that auto-update?
Yes. I consider auto-updating to be harmful. But the reasons why are another long, separate, conversation.
>This isn't an issue specific to Tesla as all automakers are now making cars that are more and more dependent on software.
Cars have been dependent on software for a long time (literally decades). This isn't something new. Even combustion engine cars have had software inside of them that controls the operation of the engine, and this software is vigorously tested for safety issues (because most car manufacturers understand a fault with such software could result in someone's death). Tesla seems to be the only major car manufacturer that has a problem with this.
>So what is the right way to handle these updates?
The way that other vehicle manufacturers (car, airplane, etc) have been doing it for decades is a pretty good way.
>You mentioned a clear flaw with OTA updates, but there are also numerous advantages. For example, the recent Tesla brake software issue was fixed with an OTA update. That immediately made cars safer.
There is no evidence that said OTA update made Tesla cars any safer. There is evidence that similar OTA updates have made Tesla cars more unsafe.
The brake OTA that you mentioned has actually potentially done more harm than good. Tesla owners have been reporting that the same update made unexpected changes to the way their cars handle/accelerate in addition to the change in braking distance. These were forced, unpredictable changes that were introduced without warning. When you're driving a 2 ton vehicle at 70mph, being able to know exactly how your car will react in all situations, including how fast it accelerates, how well it handles, how fast it brakes, and how the autopilot will act is crucial to maintaining safety. Tesla messing with those parameters without warning is a detriment to safety, not an advantage.
> software rollout
Nope, don’t want automatic over the air software update. I want it in the field when others have tried it, found issues and then I get it.
> autopilot
Again, don’t want a half baked marketing-speak technology. Driver assist with sensor driven safety features are all I want.
Don’t want extremely intrusive analytics and camera monitoring sure where after any accident the car company CEO would be testing how it was my fault.
Supercharger network is the only thing that will ever make me want to get a Tesla, hopefully other networks will soon be sufficient.
Yes, Ford dealerships and in fact all dealerships can be shady, but for other cars I generally don’t have to deal with them once the warranty is over. With Tesla I’ll have to deal with the company for the life of my car.
> even though my Tesla has radar it has been disabled via software
The fact that people put up with this is crazy to me. If I bought a car with a feature and then it was later taken away via an OTA update because the manufacturer didn't want to support it I would be pissed.
> Also, the vast majority of Tesla's customers are attracted to the idea that their car will continuously update itself and get better over time.
For how long though? I have since long realized that for me autoupdates is a anti-feuture that just makes it possible for the cooperations to mess with me.
We have the story of the Tesla owner that got his battery software limited due to a workshop messup two owners earlier.
> And this is exactly why all of these articles recently about how "great" it is that Tesla sends out frequent OTA updates are ridiculous. Frequent, unpredictable updates with changelogs that just read "Improvements and bug fixes" is fine when we're talking about a social media app, but is entirely unacceptable when we're talking about the software that controls a 2 ton hunk of metal
I recently got downvoted for that exact line of reasoning.
Looks like some people don't like to hear that :-)
> My personal friend had been stuck on the intersection because his model 3 started automatically updating system software
(X) Doubt
I'm going to be blunt here. I think either you or your friend are lying. Teslas don't automatically update system software. It tells you when there's an update available and allows you to choose when to install it. Once you tell it to start installing the update, first off, it gives you two minutes to cancel the update. Once it begins, you can't drive until the update finishes. In short, the car will NEVER interrupt a drive to install an update.
>Getting software updates for a car AT ALL is _really_ impressive.
It doesn't sound impressive so much as excessive and dangerous. I would not want to purchase a car, which drives at high speeds on the road, the functionality of which depends on regular software updates from a company. I want a car that runs, won't kill me, and is easily and cheaply repairable. As far as I can tell, Teslas don't satisfy any of those concerns even if you spend a lot of money to service them.
Even the juicero couldn't kill you because of a software error...Tesla increasingly seems to me to be a piece of Silicon Valley fluff, and a dangerous one at that.
> Tesla is still more consumer-friendly in this respect than any other car manufacturer I know of.
Tesla's the only car manufacturer selling vehicles that supposedly have full autonomy hardware with full autonomy itself a near-future firmware update away.
That becomes meaningless hype on a whole new level if the many owners the Tesla rep acknowledges have stated a need for this can get firmware updates but not map updates.
I don't want there to be any possibility of my car changing its behavior unless I take the deliberate action of bringing it into a dealership for that purpose. It's one thing if an update bricks my laptop, it's quite another if it bricks my car. Let alone if one day a malicious update somehow gets pushed out.
In case you were wondering, you opt-in to the updates from Tesla and can totally disable all connectivity if you so choose.
Virtually no one does this, because the upgrades are extremely valuable to Tesla owners and make the car accelerate quicker, brake faster, safer (constantly improving things like AEB and lane departure warning), longer range, more comfortable (suspension upgrades), and better in many other ways from minor usability tweaks (position of the phone icon in the launcher) to major functional upgrades.
OTA updates are also the only responsible way to deliver autonomous functionality.
It’s a huge asset and differentiator for Tesla. That’s not to say it won’t have detractors. E.g. Some people prefer driving stick.
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