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>It's amazing what some people choose to get offended by.

So like an author for NYT getting caught up by what a French museum has on display?

>Or at worst the inherent xenophobia of dismissing foreigners opinions because they weren't born in the same country of the thing they are critiquing

I didn't know not MYOB was "xenophobia".

Let me see you criticize black or Native American culture now, and calling them "xenophobic" if they don't take lightly to your suggestions. Or is that accusation confined to the French?



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> Unless you claim that any kind of criticism of an outside country is xenophobia

Stereotype-based criticism of other countries is xenophobia.


>You’re tiptoeing dangerously near some very questionable ethnic/racial arguments

Is he ? What's so dangerous about liking homogenous cultures and homogenous races ?

I don't want to assume too much about you, but this smells like the usual progressive tendency to glorify population-importing immigration and taboofy any discussion of it that views it in negative or critical light. There is nothing wrong about disliking foreigners on one's own land, just like there is nothing wrong about disliking guests in one's own house.


> Advertising is also pushing the same brainwashing (check the predominant races for each gender of couples in ads) and the mass import of muslim africans as well as the political refusal to admit when that causes problems

Yeah, no, I don't think giving more visibility to minorities and not being racist and islamophobic is what I had in mind when talking about my issue with US culture. Thank you for reminding me why this subject can't be discussed.

My issue is more that I strongly disagree with the way the USA frames multiculturalism and races (seriously the way the USA caracterises races is actually deeply racist). I don't believe culture can be owned and don't think cultural appropriation is a thing. Also, I'm ambivalent regarding diversity as a moral imperative and I don't believe that historical discriminations have to be compensated nor do I feel guilty in any way for what people who used to live in the country I'm currently a citizen of have done in the distant past (positions which would definitely be labeled as a form of racism by the most progressive Americans on virtue of me enjoying a privileged position - a fact I frankly don't care about).

Plus, like most French, I believe religion has no place in public life (well, actually, I believe religion is a poison for the mind and the world would be a better place if we could get ride of it but if people want to believe stupid things in private that their problem). Also, obviously, as I'm born in the twentieth century and not the middle-age, I'm favourable to unionisation, publicly founded healthcare, the right to abortion and believe that people should be able to sleep with whoever they please as long as it's consensual.

So, as you can see, I would probably be hated by both the American right and left.


>it's not xenophobic, but xenophobic people really love to talk about it. that's the problem with the discourse.

People love to talk about stuff that supports their world view.


> Anyway, it seems that what you want to establish is not that xenophobes and racists "insist it's about culture", but that anyone who "insists it's about culture" is a xenophobe or racist.

Yes, I do think that everyone who insists that culture is a valid reason for opposing the ability of people to migrate into their area is an xenophobe.


>I don't see how that is not clear

Because you're not even using the right word? Discriminating by country is not racist, it's xenophobic.

Otherwise everyone who says American tourists are annoying or has a stereotype about Americans is racist by your definition.


> At the point where you're professing sadness for Paris' dead culture in reference to the immigrant population, it's no longer a dogwhistle. It's just blatantly obvious standard-issue racism.

If its racist to identify race then you can call me a racist. Sorry, race exists, get over yourself.


> it's not xenophobic, but xenophobic people really love to talk about it. that's the problem with the discourse.

AKA, "you're not allowed to say that". The problem with the discourse is that it exists; its existence is problematic. (Considered problematic, I'm not claiming that)


>They seem incapable of understanding any different culture at all. I find it more pitiful (betrays their intellect) than offensive though.

Yes, all of Hollywood(and those evil Americans in general) is composed of stupid racists that simply can't understand other cultures, how pitiful...

Perhaps you shouldn't take the portrayal of a culture in every context as intending to be a completely accurate depiction; It is not as if American culture when depicted portrays the US accurately.


> The commenter seems more interested in the culture, the freakiness or weirdness, of the people who come in, and not so much which country they came from

Go to a Trump rally and ask if they actually hate minorities for the color of the skin. They'll say no.

Xenophobes and racists always insist it's about "culture" and an invading army which is somehow destroying that "culture" and ruining their way of life with an outside culture.

I fail to see how this attitude is acceptable when it comes from privileged urban hippies, but unacceptable when it comes from poor rural workers.


> But cultural appropriation is really something I don't understand/can't get behind...

I think that the cultural appropriation is a legitimate concern, and certainly problematic. I was just agreeing with you, that this legitimate concern is sometimes used to criticize natural and harmless things, like braiding your hair or eating certain types of cuisine.

Some of the people who defend this are so over the top that they seem "double agents". Like those who harass others that wear dreadlocks while being of the wrong race. Seriously, what the fuck. What kind of reaction do they expect for their actions, other than a visceral rejection of the whole concept of cultural appropriation?


> I, as a brown immigrant, get to criticize my home country all I want.

Countries are not people, so criticism of a country cannot be racist (it's a category error).

Criticism of people of a country could be racist, but that's a different thing.

Criticism of the government/establishment of a country could be racist, but again that's a different thing.

Unfortunately these three separate things often get conflated and mixed up.


> That can be placed pretty solidly on xenophobia.

It can be, but it probably shouldn't be.


>I think your comment perfectly illustrates the lengths people will go to and the ways in which they will contort their minds in order to uphold an strange idea that is dear to their hearts, however

Ironic that I was pointing out that you're doing exactly this.

>Putting people in Zoos is a good thing? It dehumanizes Europeans to say that it is sick to put people in Zoos?

Are you even going to attempt to argue in good faith?

>Also, I never said anything about white people.

Of course you didn't! Then your racism would be overt. But your anti European narrative is an increasingly common one that has infested academia and is creeping into industry.


> I think this is related to racism.

I don't know the author's cultural background, although I would guess they are from either the U.K. or France (their name is Breton in origin). It is at best straining the definition of racism to claim that it is racist to be more familiar with one's own culture (including it's historical influences) than with a foreign culture.

It is sad to hear that you were belittled for your name (that is racist) but it is not because of racism that Westerners are generally unfamiliar with the gods of the Aztec.


> There are actually relatively few racists in the US

From outside you seem obsessed with race and skin color. I like US stand-up so I watched all def on HBO: it is funny but "black there", "white there". It looks like the kind of difference we have between European countries: we lightly joke about it but there's always an undercurrent of repressed us vs them.

And I'd like more people to stop using the word racism for xenophobia: racism is based on appearance, xenophobia is based on origin. One is the fear of difference the other is the fear of the stranger. For racists, a black Spanish and a white Spanish are different, not for xenophobes. For xenophobes a White American is not the same thing as a white South African while they're the same thing for racists.


> As we know well, many racists use conceivably non-racist criticism to find ways to denigrate African-Americans, so it's important to be careful and sensitive to that.

This, of course, deeply depends on your definition of racist/racism. If I criticize some behavior that happens to be more prevalent among black americans than other americans, to some people that simple fact makes that critique, and thus me, a racist. That's the problem with the modern definition of racism. It's an ex-post-facto evaluation and it's way too easy to slap that on to pretty much whatever you want.

> But if I post that '(vulnerable minority) are morons', that's a very different matter - they are in danger.

No, they're not. I don't know a single reasonable human that would read that comment and go immediately fire '(vulnerable minority)'. Come on..


> you seem to have no knowledge about how diverse many other parts of the world are, with much better results too.

It's hard to pin point your opinion because it keeps shifting--are you saying the US has racism? Are you saying people in the US don't mix with other races? Are you saying American's don't have experience with other cultures?


> That's cultural appropriation.

No. What culture is allegedly appropriated here? Random insinuations don't make a good argument.

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