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But that's between cities. Fwiw, I'm in Berlin by train. But by car would have been an option, too. But in the city? There are so many better options!


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So? It's not like the reason he uses the train is for going remote places. So he could stick to travel from/to Berlin, München, Köln, Hamburg and Frankfurt most of the time.

still you can for example go from Berlin to Munich in about 10h with the latter option. (was 50€/day last time I tried for fun...)

In Paris and Berlin the alternatives are probably bikes, metro, or walking...

I regularly travel between Amsterdam and Berlin, and I have had the same experience.

I avoid the bus because it sucks, I avoid flights because they actually feel longer and more exhausting, and because the door-to-door advantage is only two hours (out of 6 or 7 total). Whenever I can, I take the train.


For some people it is. I personally know people here in Berlin (or rather around Berlin, zone c) that in the past would drive instead of taking transit into the city a couple times per week because if you already have a car it’s cheaper than buying the Berlin A-C monthly ticket (the one that takes you all the way from the suburbs the city center). This is now no longer the case, and being able to use the same ticket elsewhere in Germany is a nice little perk.

Obviously it depends on where in Germany you are but in/around Berlin while driving is often faster it’s usually not such a big gap because you’d be stuck in traffic in a car but not on the train. It would often be more like ~50 minutes instead of 40 (but then you can read a book on the Regio/S-Bahn instead of focusing ok driving).


One reason is that, once you arrive, options for public transport within the destination city in the US are limited. So you need a car once you get to your destination anyhow. What do you do when you step off the train in Atlanta or Savannah?

I just spent 7 weeks traveling around Europe by train. I would not have considered that approach without the extensive local public transportation systems. Atlanta is not remotely in the same league as Berlin in terms of public transit.


Eh? There are plenty of HSR routes that are faster by train than by car in Germany. Munich to Berlin, for example.

The problem with Berlin is than there are many operators for public transport by train:

* U-Bahn, for the subways (underground & aerial)

* S-Bahn, for sub-urban lines (mostly aerial)

* Traway in est-Berlin

A map, live or not need at least to combine the U-Bahn and the S-Bahn, (and if possible the tramway too), because you generally need to use both networks (with the same ticket) to travel. Staying in only one of the network is just not practical.


I'm also in Germany and public transport is obviously good but you still get weird cases. I live in the south of a city the size of Karlsruhe, work in the north. With public transport it's 1 hour excluding the way to the bus stop and the waiting. With a car it's 16 minutes, with a bicycle it's 35 minutes. Comically enough the shortest path is with a car and not a bicycle.

Tomorrow I have a flight at 12:00. If I want to get there (~200km) with a car it's 2-3 hours depending on traffic. If I want to get there with train+bus it's 5h11m minimum, if I go right now it's 8h26m, if I want to catch my flight tomorrow it's 9h10m (and I'll be there at 8:40 instead of 11:00). It's also more expensive than driving there and leaving my car at one of the airport's parking lots for a week. I'll save ~50 euros by driving and set off at 8 tomorrow instead of 23:30 today.


The public transit alternatives in Germany are just as expensive. Take a train in Germany and see for yourself.

Yeah, this was something more like Munich-Salzburg-Dresden-Berlin. I like trains in general, but Germany is sufficiently spread out that cars can still make more sense than in most of Europe.

Buses in Berlin are okay, but trains are usually twice as fast. Buses serve the last mile between the train station and your destination.

Public transport hasn't solved the problem of "the last mile". How do I get to/from the train station/bus stop? Frequently you still need a car to even get there and then you will need parking - which is often limited and costs a lot.

Then there's timeliness. Deutsche Bahn is known for frequently their trains are delayed. In summer, even on the Intercity connections (IC, ICE) trains will be filled to the brim and air conditioning unavailable.

I love trains. I want to use public transport. It's just so goddamn inefficient.

I live in a small town about 70km north of Frankfurt am Main. A lot of people will commute daily from here to Frankfurt. The drive is 45 minutes to 70 minutes depending on traffic. If I were to take a train I could: - Walk to the bus station (5 minutes) - Take a bus to the train station (25 minutes) - Take the train to Frankfurt (60 minutes) - Take the metro to the closest location for my office (10 minutes) - Walk into the office (5 minutes)

The time given is assuming no delays, and a schedule that matches up perfectly. Realistically you'll lose another 30 minutes just standing around on platforms.

Ultimately the whole trip, even with a daily ticket will already cost you double your fuel costs for the same ride while sacrificing air condition, quiet and comfort.

We need better solutions for a lot of things. I loved seeing how Oxford in the UK has massive parking lots outside the city center with free buses connecting you to the city. It means that people can take the highway to the city but not get stuck in city traffic.


Yeah, if you plan your appointment at a place 300km away willy nilly without checking the train schedule and if you plan your car drive in a way that you dont plan for any congestions leaving Hamburg, on the Autobahn, entering Berlin (good luck!), then yeah: The car is more expensive, more tiring, and slower. But get this: Instead of having an hour you can spend in your destination to your liking, you get to use that hour to drive your car! Congratulations!

Sorry but that has to be the most contrived and ridicilous statement I've ever read. And this is coming from someone -- me -- who owns two cars, lives in Berlin and practically never uses public transportation.


In fact the variance for that very example - Hamburg Berlin - is much higher by car. Finding a parking spot in Berlin can be very tough, and you end up cruising around the neighbourhood for 10-20 minutes. Add another 10 minute walk from the parking spot to your destination.

Traffic can vary, too, and you want to allow significant padding for traffic jams. If I drive from Hamburg to Berlin I’d start 3:30h before my appointment at the destination. With the train, 3h is probably realistic, although there is variance as the train only goes once per hour.

It’s more extreme on the distance Berlin Munich, where taking the train is vastly faster. At night you can max out your car and drive an average speed of 200km/h down the Autobahn (although it’s extremely tiring to do that for hours), and then you can make the distance in 4h by car. During the day, 6:30-7:30h is more realistic. The train takes 3:45; add to that an hour for public transport on both sides.

It’s different when you don’t go to the big cities. You can take the train from Munich to a ski resort in Austria, but it will take twice as long as the car, and you need a cab for the last few kilometres. But nothing beats the train when travelling between large cities in Germany (not even flying, unless you have a private jet).


Huh? I travel every few weeks from Berlin into my tiny little home village in the Ore Mountains by train, and what's not reachable by train has bus connections. The urban infrastructure is (mostly) fine. I guess doctors can simply make more money in cities with a bigger selection of rich privately insured patients to milk :)

Slightly off-topic: I've noticed that public transport from city center to airport kind of suck in larger german cities.

In e.g. Berlin (for SXF at least), Frankfurt and Munich there's only the fantastically slow S-Bahn, with ride times around 40-60 minutes.


Köln to Berlin and Paris to Lyon are train journeys, not car trips.

Rubbish. I've travelled Berlin to Brussels (and then London) by train. It was very pleasant.
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