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> I have not really gotten the impression that press of UK, Australia, France or Germany

BBC world service, Deutsch Welte and France 24



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> I'm German. Public broadcasting, including ARD/ZDF but also countless of local radio station is without a doubt significantly better in quality than BILD/RTL or other private tabloid media

Better than FAZ, ZEIT, Spiegel? That's the private media you should compare the news sections to, and I have some doubts that anybody thinks Public Broadcaster by and large have a similar level of journalistic integrity & quality.


>there is independent media/press in germany, the article was not produced by any government entity.

Perhaps, but the public broadcasting channels (Öffentlich-rechtlicher Rundfunk) aren't part of this. You can predict their reporting and spin with good accuracy depending on which political party they're aligned with (SPD -> ARD, CDU -> ZDF, NDR -> Die Grünen).


> I'll simply wait for an independent source from another country to report on any such story.

Which countries specifically? I know that German-speaking news outlets aren’t any less partisan, and I have little reason to think that the rest of Europe is much better.


> The only difference I see from your description is that in Germany it is not the media following the politics, but rather the politics following the media.

It works the same as everywhere. The state is reliably broadcasting a constant stream of press releases and other information. If you're a journalist, that's a good source in your day to day work.

GEZ does not change that


> There's not a lot of French newspapers in that list, for example.

Which isn't that surprising considering that English sources are preferred for the English-language Wikipedia.

Usually, if there's something important in a French newspaper then English-language ones will report it as well, through their local correspondents.


>Which is probably why most German news outlets don't have comments sections.

I don't have a good list of what relevant german online news outlets are, but taking a few guessed stabs at mainstream-y outlets:

www.tagesschau.de/

faz.net

www.focus.de

www.welt.de

www.spiegel.de

www.zeit.de

www.mdr.de

all have comments on some articles

www.sueddeutsche.de

bild.de

www.n-tv.de

don't have comments on articles as far as i can see

Doesn't seem like "most" to me. Am i missing something?


Not just UK media, German media as well. But maybe not to yhe same extent.

> no independent media

This cannot be overstated. The entirety of German media (excluding niche outlets) across the political spectrum align on every important topic.


> I don't think that contradicts smt88's point.

Imho it perfectly contradicts the point, because the UK isn't alone with that issue, BILD is also a tabloid, the most circulated one in Germany.

Of course, a lot of that hinges with the definition of "tabloid" [0] and how different Overton windows for these societies. For example, both UK and German tabloids heavily relied on "Page X" girls for their popularity.

While the same in the US was it's very own niche with the Playboy, as selling sexuality that openly in the mainstream was always more controversial in the US compared to Europe.

But US outlets also ain't above sensationalized headlines and leaving out a bit of context to justify them, some would argue that's something the US actually championeered with the marketing industry.

It's the same with the public shaming and privacy of people; In Europe, that's considered a very tabloid thing to do, meanwhile, in the US it's often standard to show uncensored pictures of people with their full names.

Does that really help to surface the truth? Or is it merely just another manifestation of the flaws of the "free market" at work? If the market only wants what sells best, and not what's actually true, what's the most likely outcome?

[0] https://www.agilitypr.com/resources/top-media-outlets/top-15...


1) The public media web outlets I know do not publish in-depth articles like Spiegel/Zeit/Sueddeutsche. Yes, it makes sense that the public media change their focus as the to follow the focus of the population they serve.

2) Since the topic at hand is limited to Germany, I guess a look at other nations is an argument?


> High quality public news is also still available. BBC, In Germany ARD/ZDF and even English language offering (DW), NPR in the US I believe ...

In the US, there simply isn't enough quality news available for free, and many essential stories and reporting are behind paywalls (especially the NYT and Wash Post).


Well, German public TV and radio isn’t nearly as good as the newspaper cited in the article. Compared with BBC - it’s certainly is not a great example of spending public funds.

> this leak

AFAICS it's not a leak, but a regular freedom of information request. And I'm not too familiar with how German media works, but if it's anything like the Dutch national broadcaster, it's not actually the states that are pursuing this, but journalists on their own accord.


> nobody has ever called the press the fourth "Stand".

Because unlike in the UK, the press as a Gewalt in a political system with Gewaltenteilung (division of power), appeared only after the society divided in estates (Ständegesellschaft) ceased to be. It's a timeline issue.


> "spiegel.de and bild.de have the main article behind a paywall. They don’t do this for important news."

As a side note:

This seems to me a weird business model, why pay for unimportant news?

Wouldn't it make more sense to bring important news behind a paywall?

Can someone explain? Thanks!


I think that’s more a statement about the weakness of their position than it is about Deutsche Welt’s reporting in this case.

> Inside the World’s Largest Fact Checking Operation

Spiegel has 1M prints / week, which is not so high number. I would expect 'world largest' editorial staff at some bigger news paper.


> is a public broadcasting station paid for with taxes via the german government

Not exactly. Germans have to pay the Rundfunkabgabe which directly funds the TV stations, it's not a position in the government's bookkeeping.


There aren't that many 24-hour cable news stations in Germany that are broadcast around the world in a language that a fair number of people internationally can speak.
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