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In some ways, gold is the only real money. Governments have been secretly taxing their citizens by forcing them to use the gov't issued currency while printing more of it. Savers lose value in this process to finance short term needs.

You can't print gold. Even when gold prices wildly fluctuate, gold production doesn't b/c it's already so hard. In times like now, we're going to print lots of USD in one way or another.

Is there a gov't issued currency that's held its price better than gold?



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Producing (that is, discovering and bringing to market) new gold is incredibly time consuming and hard. Printing trillions of dollar bills on high speed presses with no value to back them up is very easy. So the difficulty of getting gold makes inflationary policies impossible by central governments. There is no way to magically come up with 2 trillion dollars of new gold in a few months. You can, however, with the printing presses. This is why gold provides a reality link to the value of our money. The value of the actual paper that money is printed on is virtually nothing.

That argument that value of gold is 'something real' is getting tired. Value of gold is not baked by anything practical - it's usage for jewelery depends on its high value in a self referencing, half paradoxical feedback loop (see Nick Szabo on origins of money: http://szabo.best.vwh.net/shell.html ). But there is something that indeed makes gold a better standard than the printing press of the government - it is its objectivity. Printing money is just too easily manipulated, mining gold sets more objective rules and clear rules are what makes any decentralized social system work.

You can't print gold either, but that's precisely why even central banks use it as a store of value.

It's infinitely easier to print money at will, which is what keeps happening. Gold has intrinsic value for practically all of human existence.

600k (USD) in gold. The only currency that survived 1000 years. You can't print out gold so no matter what the FED does, it won't disappear anytime soon. I'm a Software Engineer in my 30's.

In what sense is gold the real money? Gold doesn't back most currencies any longer. Money is the real money.

These days, pretty much all money-printing is effectively out of thin air. Few if any have a gold standard or similar backing their currencies. So it's down to trust in the economy. (Not that gold really has intrinsic value, but everybody seem to love shiny rocks:)

All money is fiat money. I have no more inherent reason to accept an ounce of gold for my sandwich than a $20 bill. The only value the gold has for me is the expected value others place upon it, which is also the only value I have for a $20 bill. Gold is only useful if we think it is useful. As an industrial metal, it would have nowhere near the present value. Historically discoveries of gold caused the value of currencies to fluctuate dramatically.

People have rose-colored glasses with gold and silver backed currencies, but they were a factor in the Great Depression and directly responsible for several severe recessions and panics.

The gold standard of Bretton Woods also never had enough gold to back it up. It was a fiction the world kindly played along with the US on.


Not really. Gold is held as a standard, but I would argue that gold itself is nothing more than another form of fiat. Why is gold worth anything? Because we all agree that it is. How much gold is there? Whatever is reported by the governments who hold it. There's no way to check. There are ways to guess, but it's just a shiny metal that we all agree is worth exchange.

Limiting us to gold also exposes us to massive economic swings, due to the limited ability to control how much or how little we all agree exists. I always hear people talk about how we 'print money' when we need it but NO ONE mentions that we also take money OUT of the economy all of the time.


Okay, I think we're getting somewhere. I agree that we the people decide the value of money. The people collectively choose what they want to use as money and they will naturally choose the best money for the job. I also can agree that just because the government says the dollar is worth something doesn't make it so.

We originally chose gold because of its fundamental properties I mentioned earlier, and then we chose paper notes because they worked better than gold.

However, this is where I think we see things differently. Originally the paper notes represented gold and so had the same limited supply. So it had all the improvements in portability, divisibility etc but also had the (illusory) strength of gold's scarcity. It seems perfect. In digital form even better! But over time bankers began to print more notes than there were gold and the notes rapidly lost their limited supply. For around the last century, the bankers have roughly doubled the number every decade. Make sure you've understood that - each decade since at least 1971, they've taken all the dollars in existence and printed the same quantity again out of thin air (as loans), and charged interest on every single one every year to date! This dilutes the wealth in the dollar system across twice as many dollar units, resulting in it causing a halving of the wealth in each dollar unit, every 10 years (this leaking value goes into the freshly created dollars). It's the main factor behind price inflation. It's why houses seem to go up in value for ever. They're not, they are just being priced in units which are going down and down in value. Houses still cost roughly the same today in gold as they did in the 70s.

This money printing causes enormous hidden problems to the world. The people who are close to the money printer get greatly discounted money, and the value of that money is sucked out of the dollars held by the people furthest away - your savings, your wages, your pension, granny's savings under the mattress, and all without you realising! It's called the Cantillon effect. The bankers get more and more powerful (they're collecting interest on every single dollar in existence even though they just printed them out of thin air!) and the population get weaker and weaker. What makes it worse is the people direct their anger at "greedy" businesses for the price increases rather than the banksters! You have to hand it to them - what a beautiful scam.

Bitcoin solves the problem of having a few select people in control of creating the money tokens, which throughout history always results in them abusing their power and inflating the supply into hyperinflation. It's the initial form of the URV described in the article you mentioned!

As expected the URV ("Brazilian Real") was inflated away over time once the central bank got its hands on control of the issuance as can be seen in this graph: https://tradingeconomics.com/brazil/money-supply-m2

Because bitcoin's supply is hard limited - the decentralised nature ensures no one has the power to change the issuance curve, it's the initial form of the URV you mentioned, but the decentralised, proof-of-work paradigm means that it will stay like that _forever_. The more they print money, the more the price of bitcoin goes up.

Its energy paradigm is no different to gold's - having to put in work to dig up gold is what makes gold the hardest money we ever had (today gold mining still uses more energy than the bitcoin network). It's the most natural thing in the world that money tokens we use as "proof of work" require equivalent work to create. Any system that breaks that rule will ultimately be corrupted and fail. History has shown this over and over again.


Unlike fiat money, gold cannot be manufactured cheaply. This limits government's power to obtain it. Think of Zimbabwe. If you were a wage earner in Zimbabwe, would you rather keep your retirement fund in Zimbabwean dollars or gold? These are two extremes along a continuum of ways to store wealth.

Gold is a good way to store wealth because it is durable, of limited supply, dense in space and value, portable, fungible, dividable, identifiable, and universally valued now and for the foreseeable future.

Zimbabwean paper money is portable, fungible, dividable, and identifiable, but its performance on the other characteristics makes it it an overall poor way to store value.

All forms of government-created fiat money are in danger of going the way of Zimbabwean dollar. The issuing government can just decide to print more, thus devaluing the existing money.

Other ways of storing value have their own problems. Some people use land, but while land is potentially very valuable, it's not portable, fungible, or universally valuable. Businesses organized as corporations can be used to store value, and many people save for their retirement this way (by buying stocks). This has the benefit that in good times, the value of your investment can grow by itself. Unfortunately, it can also shrink by itself in bad times. Also, shares of corporations are not easily dividable.

My point is that forms of money (stored wealth) are not arbitrary.


Turning gold into cash should be the last thing people do.

Unlike the US dollars, gold can't simply be mined fast enough to reduce its values. Whereas with the US dollar, the US federal reserve can just print it, literally.

Gold is the money of the future, especially when the economic system finally collapse. Gold has been money for thousand of years for good reason.

Unless there are better form of money in a free market, gold is the best choice. Horde some of it.(Of course, don't convert your entire saving into gold, that's stupid.) It may leave you one of the last guy with real wealth after an economic collapse. It is the cork that float in an ocean of economic uncertainly.

This is of course, assuming that the government managed to outrun our economic productive capacity.


A real currency is widely accepted, gold is not. Gold is very unhandy, the article is about one example why.

Gold doesn't claim to be a currency just as real as the Dollar.

Gold is the least bad currency option when compared to all the fiat currencies.

This simplification misses the point. Unlike paper money and stocks you can't print more Gold. That's why people fall back to it again and again. Also it has _some_ intrinsic value in various applications. I am not arguing we should be using Gold, only that the statement you make, while true on the surface, glosses over the entirety of the interesting and relevant points about its use as money, historically and today.

Gold has utility besides its currency value; it's easy to work, highly conductive and non-reactive, making it ideal for many industrial and aesthetic purposes.

Paper currency is backed by a government promise. Of course, if people lose faith in a state or a government persistently debases the fiat currency, people will lose confidence in it. But as I've pointed out before, while there have been many hyperinflationary episodes, it's not that frequent of a problem relative to the number of countries and currencies in existence.


Gold will retain its value in any financial system reboot. Paper money will not.

I guess I'm curious what "wealth-backed money" is. All money is only a medium of exchange, and is only worth what people collectively agree it is worth.

I'm going to take a guess and assume you mean gold, but if that isn't the case, I'm really curious to know.

The fact that people collectively agreed that gold was a good form of money has nothing to do with any intrinsic (or god given) value of gold. It had everything to do with certain properties of gold that made it a good medium of exchange. Namely, it's durable, portable, hard to counterfeit, malleable, etc.

Eventually, gold's cause was assisted by tradition. People have been using it to represent money for so long they mistakenly believe it has intrinsic value. (Granted, gold isn't a bad choice, if you are betting on the fact that others will irrationally value it.)

So yes, it's harder for governments to manipulate a gold-backed currency... but it's not that hard. The US effectively did it twice, most recently after WWI with the Gold Reserve Act. Also, your money supply is now open to manipulation by private entities and even individuals. Gold mining companies, for instance, would have powerful sway over the amount and price of gold.

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