Talk is talk, but question is why murder Indian soldiers? Why bother destroying the golden goose Honkong?
Add to that silly power games to try and intimidate Australia(and failing) PRC strategy is very far from smart here. Perhaps it is supreme arrogance? Arrogance like that historically have led to a lot of people getting killed.
As for the rest, I disagree with your interpretation. It can even be argued that the Indians responded disproportionately to one guy being shoved by attacking everyone in the opposing party. Anyway we can't claim both that the Chinese murdered our troops and also that we killed more than twice of theirs than they did ours (but apparently, when we kill them, it is honourable?)
when was the last time China invaded another country and killed hundreds of thousands?
I really not interested in arguing good vs. evil, China VS US, but your blindness is just amazing!
The biggest killer of Chinese in the 19th and 20th century were....other Chinese, not to mention other Asians. I'm not sure why America is singled out when war just happens to be brutal. The PLA has been especially brutal in its treatment of their countrymen (e.g. The siege of Changchun).
Likewise, the north Vietnamese really practiced total war to an extreme, and well, it worked out for them at high costs they were will to pay.
just look at chinese history (or the history of most nations), you would find tons and tons of examples of chinese rulers killing tens of thousands of other chinese people in pointless wars for pointless reasons.
Thanks for providing more references. Maybe I'm dense, but where exactly is the bullying by the Chinese side? It seems to have gone from a claim that 7-8 Filipino fishermen besieged them, to them saying it was an accident and apologizing.
> Isn't that exactly what USA did to its Japanese citizens during World War II
It was, but eventually they got the dignity of an apology and a check to get their lives in the USA back on track.
The war in India also only lasted barely 2 months, to be held for 5 years seems excessive.
> But that's why nobody likes to go to war, isn't it? The first casualty of war is the truth.
Sometimes the loss of truth is placed before the lead up to war. I'm seeing a lost respect for truth (I'm not directing this at you) and I find it very concerning.
>Wait, I'm British. You were talking about Britain. Why did we suddenly switch to the USA? Also, half of your rebuttals are inaccurate and half are not comparable in the slightest.
Really? I'd like to see how. China is mostly a country that hasn't attacked or bothered anyone. Tibet and Taiwan are disputed areas next to mainland China -- not some remote countries they decided to invade and exploit as colonies. Unlike Britain (and the US, France, Belgium etc) that has soaked large parts of the world in blood, theft, and slavery for centuries.
Heck, a British guy speaking about China re: Tibet and Taiwan? Oh, the irony. Britain stole Honk Kong from China (some 15,000 miles away from "his own business") and attacked China to enforce their trade (of opium among other things).
>No, there is no western version of the horrors of "Tank Man". A lot of the Chinese i've spoken to do not even know this happened, and the other half refuse to see it as a problem.
The horrors of the "tank man", have an estimated 250 to 2500 dead.
No "western equivalent"?
For one, the Britain, in the Opium Wars, killed around 40.000 Chinese. That's from 200 to 20 times more.
And here's another: "the British detained not 80,000 Kikuyu, as the official histories maintain, but almost the entire population of one and a half million people, in camps and fortified villages. There, thousands were beaten to death or died from malnutrition, typhoid, tuberculosis and dysentery. In some camps almost all the children died".
Mind you, this is just one example of tons of British atrocities the world over.
As for not acknowledging the Tien An Men incident (or it's importance), well the Guardian article from where I took this speaks volumes: "Deny the British empire's crimes? No, we ignore them".
>The wars that have spanned the last five decades (Middle East, Asia, South America) have been brutal, bloody, and in many case unwarranted, but again, this is nothing to the blatant and open genocides caused by the Chinese. Half of the country is in extreme poverty. Examples: Three-Year Famine, Mao's "1000 Flowers Bloom".
Those are internal issues, and they get to do what they please with their own citizens. Political changes (like from a humiliated colony for britain and Japan to a sovereign nation) always have a blood toll -- in China, that has 1 billion population, that toll will be bigger. Sure, a lot of those killings were misguided, but that's their issues to solve.
It's not like Britain didn't have its own internal civil wars in its past (or they didn't repress the Irish and the Scots). Or like it doesn't have people in poverty (heck, tons of people in England are uneducated, piss poor, living on the dole and with petty crimes). Compared to most of the affluent Western Europe, it can be argued that England does the worst in terms of poverty -- in places like Yorkshire, Bradford, et al.
Just looking at the number of wars that the PRC has been involved in:
1950 : Invades and Annexes Tibet
1950 - 1953 : Assists North Korea and invades South Korea
1954 : Attempted to invade Taiwan
1958 : Attempted to invade Taiwan
1962 : Sino-Indian War
1967 : Nathu La and Cho La clashes
1979 : Sino-Vietnam War
2017 : China-India border standoff
2020-2021: China-India clashes
You also claim that FOGBANK records were destroyed to cover up for lawsuits, Wikipedia does not have anything relating to that.
>Manufacture involves the moderately toxic, highly volatile solvent acetonitrile, which presents a hazard for workers (causing three evacuations in March 2006 alone).
Acetonitrile may be poison but has been used in public product very recently:
>It has been used in formulations for nail polish remover, despite its toxicity. At least two cases have been reported of accidental poisoning of young children by acetonitrile-based nail polish remover, one of which was fatal.[23] Acetone and ethyl acetate are often preferred as safer for domestic use, and acetonitrile has been banned in cosmetic products in the European Economic Area since March 2000.[24]
Which is what I find strange about the Century of Humiliation. Why is China losing a minor war that killed a couple thousand Chinese soldiers a great humiliation while getting outright conquered at least twice (once by the Mongols and once by the Manchu) isn't?
Tens of millions of Chinese died during the Manchu invasion of China. The Qing forced every Han Chinese male to shave their forehead and wear a queue on the threat of death, but that's apparently not humiliating.
That really hasn't worked well for the Chinese in the past. The Great Sparrow Campaign and the Great Leap Forward immediately springs to mind.
Tens of millions of dead in each one.
Does your buddy not know anything about recent Chinese history? I guess I got taught it randomly in school (UK, happened to be on the History GCSE), so perhaps it's forgivable.
Great so China has no human rights, an autocratic leader, an ideology that places their ethnic race at the top and declares it should rule the world and now we're basically discussing -- essentially -- scientific experimentation on human beings and eugenics.
Truman should've let General MacArthur take out Mao after we finished off the Japanese fascists. Now we have nuclear armed fascists with a much larger population. Cool cool cool cool
Slow response, military quarentine, government deception. Somehow your brain said xenophobia is the reason they are getting criticized. Why are other Asian countries joined in that chorus then? Taiwan for example. USA and China gov are famously liars. China in the past has killed (+-)100 million people to maintain power.
You are perpetuating a nationalistic flamewar in this thread. We don't rock the boat when it comes to China or the CCP on HN, even for genocide. Please stop, and please don't do it again.
So for 1400 years of bloody, hatefilled history they steal a plane full of Chinese citizens to teach Malaysia a lesson? I'm probably just ignorant, but I'd have to guess that that level of risk isn't worth blind rage without furthering some agenda.
1. There is no clear evidence as to which side initiated that conflict.
2. There were casualties on both sides. “Chinese soldiers kill our people“ You made it sound like Chinese soldiers killed civilians. Do you have any credible sources to back up your claim?
Can't reply to you last comment but here is my take
I was born in totalitarian regime so my point of view on how things work is different. Nobody in the right mind in regime like PRC will show initiative like shoving you enemies Commanding officer. It just never happens. Those guys were ordered to do it. Consequences of doing something like that to you, your family etc without an order would be extreme.
Number of killed in the end is irrelevant, it is like US counting how many vietcong they bagged, utterly pointless. Small units, ncos and officers performed very well here.
I think it was what you call reconnaissance in force. Chinese wanted to see the quality of the opposing units, cause confusion and perhaps fear. They succeeded in first, others not so much. But they are persistent and judging from satellite photos have been building up force in the are for a while. Act 2 will come, sooner or later.
It is very consistent with the "fishermen" ramming opponents ships, killing Vietnamese sailors etc. This has been MO of the PRC for a very long time.
Also note that China's killed way more people in it's short history than the US did through it's entire 240 year history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine Tens of millions of dead in a short few years.
Add to that silly power games to try and intimidate Australia(and failing) PRC strategy is very far from smart here. Perhaps it is supreme arrogance? Arrogance like that historically have led to a lot of people getting killed.
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