I have often noticed that the "it gets better" crew, who dispense whatever little memes and then move on, have no skin in the game.
The reality might be much different if there were some accounting at the end. "It appears that this person continued to suffer another twenty-three years and then died joylessly. As such, you must spend the next twenty-three years in a miserable and unpleasant box. Oh, and you have to also endure people telling you that it is only temporary. Ta."
The unpleasant reality is that there are many situations which are untractable and the denial of their existence -- and the suffering inflicted -- largely serves to soothe those looking for a just world. We regularly call upon people to continue to be (and worse, be "up" about it) in circumstances where, were they occurring in some fuzzy animal, we would be moved to a grueling euthanasia with whatever rock came to hand.
"it's not the end of all life" isn't much of a consolation for those that will have to live through the shitshow
Some people are used to such a good life that the concept of actual, intense, long-term suffering doesn't even register as something that can happen to them. And even when it is pointed out to them there's no gut feeling for how shit life can be
You are the defeatist: you seem to think people cannot get better without suffering.
The article just states that to actually be better, a good starter is to remove the useless comparison with an idealized future self, because it brings no good and it’s actually harmful.
Quite honestly, when the alternative is unbearable suffering, what does it matter if they are? It apparently still represents an improvement in their quality of life.
I agree with everything you said but I want to highlight one more condition: There must be a reasonable chance that the suffering will end if one toughs it out. It doedn't have to actually end or be highly probable but there has to be realistic hope. This is what differs some chronic conditions from the other cases talked about here.
That isn’t really how life works. I’ve been through unspeakable pain (literally, no words to describe it), and in the midst of it it felt that if the pain ever ended, I would be thankful for every day — because it was a day without pain. One day the pain had subsided, and at first that was true. But years later, it’s hard not to just take each day the same way as I did before the pain. Knowledge of the worst doesn’t really improve your day to day, although it can put it into perspective.
It’s the same as if a parent died. People don’t become happier after experiencing that kind of sadness, if anything it makes them more sad.
I doubt if everyone in the world who was privileged took a weeklong trip to the most undeveloped, rough living conditions on earth, that much would change long term.
And what of the excruciatingly painful existence that doesn't come with a near-term "inevitable death". What you're advocating is long-term inescapable torture.
I'd argue the "experiencing unbearable suffering" part is redundant anyway, since "I'd literally rather die than continue to experience this" is about as close to a definition as you're going to get.
And while any standard of "sustained" and "prospect of improvement" will have their edge cases, that's arguably still better than either absolute of availability.
The problem is ensuring it's truly voluntary, which seems rather difficult
That's an absurd comparison. If your reality is becoming worse, telling yourself that you should be grateful just because your reality is still better than some random person thousands of miles away doesn't help. Especially if you have no real power to change that other person's reality, BUT have power and a voice to change your reality.
By this logic, no one should ever complain or try to change anything. Because surely, someone, somewhere, has it worse. Got cancer? Well, someone somewhere has cancer AND a two broken legs.
You make a rational case for it, while for many going through suffering every day, it doesn't seem to be an option. Think of slaves, (and all the modern more subtle forms of slavery). A far as I am aware the majority still wanted / want to live despite suffering every day.
I guess the idea (for most western people) is that it is a phase that will pass / things will improve.
Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? Even if you're not 25 and healthy and wealthy and happy, I think life is still worth living.
Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs.
Alternatively if as my mother tells me, I'm doomed to an eternity of unimaginable physical and psychological torture by supernaturally powerful fallen angelic beings with complete control of my entire sensorium, even a few more minutes of being hooked up to a hospital bed with doctors trying to make things better are preferable to that!
I think suffering is based on life expectancy and not fixed. Life expectancy was 50 years not a long back, but still people suffered last 5 years or so of their life.
And yet, many of the people who are undoubtedly suffering horribly still manage to find moments of happiness in short, brutal lives. We as privileged people should absolutely be doing all we can to help improve quality of life for all humans, but I think you're projecting bleakness you feel on situations that do in fact have moments of joy, and even peace.
And I think joy is a better word than beauty. Beauty kind of implies to me objective truth, but joy can be found even in unimaginable trying situations where no objective person would see beauty.
I guess at the end of the day, all you can really choose is to believe in something or to believe in nothing.
I honestly feel bad in a detached way that people are "allowed" to ever get to this point. Its like those people born without pain/heat sensors (nociceptors?) who are technically painless/can tolerate any temperature but all that means is they never have a natural feedback loops that keeps them alive and thst they don't need to actively manage 24/7/365/80 if they even make it that far.
We need to be told and hear things that are painful and force us to reevaluate. In the ab$ence of that, its financially/personally/socially ruinous. Suicidal even, some might infer
There's a huge gap between "acknowledging true nature of life" (that it's not all roses and ponies, that there's pain and misery) and "not wanting to continue the misery".
Call me an accelerationist, but if the statements that our entire generation has no hope and that something needs to change at a higher level are true, then maybe trying to delay that change with drugs and therapy is not the best option.
I don't mind individuals trying to ease their own suffering with whatever method works for them, but I personally don't want to live in a brave new world where everyone needs to pop some funny pills just to not be unhappy. That's somehow worse than hopeless suffering if you ask me.
There's certain romanticism in suffering that I find appealing. I guess that's the reason why tragedy is regarded more highly than comedy - and there's nothing worse than a bad comedy.
It’s great that some people can suffer for fun. I’d like to see them try to survive my life where there is no end, no escape, no relief. Only death will finally take the pain away.
There may be a difference in kind between sport and what I deal with but I gotta tell ya, I’ve yet to see anyone who can actually see the difference.
The reality might be much different if there were some accounting at the end. "It appears that this person continued to suffer another twenty-three years and then died joylessly. As such, you must spend the next twenty-three years in a miserable and unpleasant box. Oh, and you have to also endure people telling you that it is only temporary. Ta."
The unpleasant reality is that there are many situations which are untractable and the denial of their existence -- and the suffering inflicted -- largely serves to soothe those looking for a just world. We regularly call upon people to continue to be (and worse, be "up" about it) in circumstances where, were they occurring in some fuzzy animal, we would be moved to a grueling euthanasia with whatever rock came to hand.
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