> stims [...] provide even more impulsive tendencies
In people who suffer from ADHD, stimulants actually have the opposite effect, and are prescribed specifically to reduce the disregulation of executive function.
Yeah, no. That's just really misleading. The first day on stimulants was the calmest I experienced in years. The whole idea of hyperactivity is (extremely simplified) that your brain fills the space of missing external stimulation. That's where self-stimulation comes from.
> and to motivate an action to be performed vs procrastinating
I’ve watched several peers go down the path of trying to use stimulants for motivation starting in college and again later in my career. There’s no denying that it works at first. They are stimulants, after all, and they stimulate people especially well when they first start taking them.
The problem is that the motivation from stimulants is famously prone to tolerance and rebound effects. It’s also very prone to habit-forming associations. I’ve noticed several people try to use prescription stimulants in an “as needed” fashion when they need to get a lot of work done quickly and they don’t really want to do it. It doesn’t take long before it’s obvious to their friends and coworkers when they’re having an off day or an on day, even though they might deny any rebound effect. It gets scary when they do this so long that they forget how to self-motivate without taking stimulants because they’ve built such a strong mental association between “I have a lot of work to do” being a trigger for “I should take another pill today” or even “I’ll save this work until tomorrow when I can take a pill”. It gets even scarier when tolerance sets in (to the motivating/stimulating effect, not so much the intended attention-enhancing effect) and they’re now flirting with escalating doses, double doses, combinations with ‘nootropics’ to boost effects or ‘reduce tolerance’ and other slippery slopes.
The short-term productivity boost shouldn’t be denied, but I think it’s also short-sighted to hold these drugs up as a free lunch productivity boost. Let’s be honest: A little experimenting here and there isn’t going to show tolerance, extensive rebound, psychological associations, or other effects, but that’s also what gets people in trouble when they start to think it’s a free lunch. There’s a reason the traditional ADHD treatment approach involves taking the same dose every day rather than encouraging the patient to build psychological associations between taking the drug to alter their mood state.
The strange part about this conversation is that if I wrote all of the above text about drinking 2 energy drinks at the start of a work day, few people would argue with it. The tolerance, rebound, and dependence effects of caffeine seem to be well known in pop culture. For some reason people with a little exposure to prescription stimulants seem to think that the normal rules don’t apply to them, at least at first.
A lot of people who have minimal or sporadic experience with stimulants seem to think they’re no-strings-attached productivity boosts, but there’s no free lunch. The brain will adapt over time.
Very much this. The nice thing about stimulant medication is it provides more of the ADHD brain regulation with a lower impact on your body (jitters, increased heartrate, etc).
>I see this repeated often and I've never been able to find a source for it. I do not believe stimulant medications affect people with ADHD and without ADHD differently.
I'm sorry but you clearly haven't even tried to research the subject, so I'm not surprised you don't believe it. People with ADHD have been scientifically proven to have deficiencies in specific neurotransmitters, namely norepinephrine and dopamine. There's multiple studies on ADHD and reward pathways you could find with a simple google search.
If you understand how amphetamine based stimulants such as adderall work, you'll know these are 2 of the major neurotransmitters that they target along with serotonin.
The entire reason for using these types of medications is to improve availability of neurotransmitters to those with abnormal production that impedes cognitive function. Sure people with normal levels can take stimulants and see effects, since these drugs don't balance levels, they just increase them. In a person with normal dopamine production it's just going to lead to an imbalance, and result in the euphoria feeling they're seeking, whether they want to admit it or not.
Edit: the article you posted doesn't even support your argument. It seems in people without ADHD, the medication resulted in increased impulsivity and distractibility.Most likely as a result of abnormal levels of norepinephrine. This is evidence of the drug having literally the opposite of it's intended effect when taken by people without ADHD.
> However, being on stimulants is very exhaustive for your body, and it temporarily stops the racing thoughts many people struggle with, even some time after taking it.
Exhaustion is not the mechanism by which stimulants calm people with ADHD, as far as we understand it. Very approximately their internal world is less stimulating than that find restful so they’re constantly looking for more stimulation to reach a pleasant level. The stimulants let them reach that level without more environmental stimulation. One of my friends doesn’t drink anything with caffeine in it because it puts him to sleep.
> For folks without ADHD, you should know that stimulants, like Ritalin and Adderall, do not usually cause the same response as in non-ADHD people.
I can confirm; I have ADHD and this even applies to stronger stimulants like cocaine. Cocaine doesn't do much for me, so I never understood why my friends were always bouncing off the walls while I was just chilling, like "what's the big deal with this drug". I didn't get it until I was diagnosed with ADHD and understood how our brains are wired differently.
>I let some non-ADHD friends try a low dose of Ritalin when I had switched off of it and had some left over, and they were bouncing off the fucking walls -- I would strongly not recommend taking stimulants unless medically necessary.
>For people with ADHD, they can be truly life saving. For recreational use, avoid.
Just so you are aware, amphetamines are and have been used widely, and successfully, by people without ADD/ADHD. It has addictive qualities for sure, but I appreciate that people are allowed to try whatever substances they would like to try.
> That is their mode of operation - they increase mental focus.
That's a misunderstanding of how ADHD works for most people. Most people with ADHD do not experience a deficiency with focus, but an inability to selectively focus on something. What someone with ADHD needs to do, they might not be able to focus on, and yet they may be able to hyperfocus on a task that they enjoy. Thus it can be seen that they do not lack the ability to focus, but merely the ability to control how they focus on something, and how intensely they focus on something. ADHD medication is focused on not improving focus, but improving their ability to control that focus.
The brain for people with ADHD is very different, and people with ADHD generally do not find that stimulants act in the way that they do for people without ADHD.
> Amphetamine and Modafinil have also caused these types of behavior in myself but none moreso than Methylphenidate.
Why is this the case?
I too have been legally prescribed such substances for medical reasons, and I have some of the same issues. The medications do help alleviate some symptoms, but during the initial ramp-up (like shortly after ingestion) I have worse symptoms for about an hour or so. Some of which occasionally include compulsive behaviors.
>Just because stimulants _can_ get you high and be addictive doesn't mean they will when taken appropriately.
I'm definitely calling out inappropriate usage, so I don't disagree.
>Plus both cause slight dry mouth, appetite suppression that I have to forcibly eat through, and insomnia if I take them too late in the day. Not to mention the fundamental hassle of taking pills every day within narrow bands of time, something I regularly procrastinate and/or forget.
Yeah the side-effects are not great. Throw in teeth-grinding, compulsive behaviors, irritability, aggressiveness, etc.
>If I had no ambitions or responsibilities, I would be more than happy to throw my medicine away and sit around on my computer all day every day. Unfortunately, I do have ambitions and responsibilities and medication helps mitigate my crippling, career-threatening inability to get things done. So I'll take that tradeoff.
I'm happy to hear about your self control. I wish I were effective as a person naturally, I'm sure you can relate. Unfortunately they don't work for me as well as they once did.
> If you feel like you need stimulants to perform well in a job, you need to reconsider your career choices.
OR you may have a medical condition such as ADHD where stimulants are a useful prescribed tool to deal with it. Not everyone who needs stimulants to work is abusing them.
> can’t for the life of me find the motivation to do it. Check with a Dr if it’s that sort of thing!
To be clear: Stimulants are not motivation in pill form. The motivation boost is a short-term side effect and tolerance definitely develops quickly.
I think a lot of people get the wrong idea after seeing people use stimulants to cram for finals in college. Long-term treatment won’t do anything like that. It can improve focus and reduce distractability, but you’re not going to become a code-writing machine for the next decade on stimulants.
> I would at least try the meds for a couple of months.
Whether or not you have ADHD, amphetamines will improve your life if you measure quality by how much you get done.
So I think the real question is: Are you prevented from functioning according to your expectations without daily amphetamine use, or not? And do you even see that as a problem?
I've used various (legal) amphetamines and modafinil variants for years, and they always made me very productive and happy, because I like getting things done. They also make me very high-energy.
Disclaimers:
- Amphetamines are physically addictive
- Being productive is psychologically addictive
- Take time off, or the productivity effect will even out, just like too much coffee.
In people who suffer from ADHD, stimulants actually have the opposite effect, and are prescribed specifically to reduce the disregulation of executive function.
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