Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

A human could drive the car with just the sensor input so in a very real way this is not correct. I agree that Tesla still has a long way to go though.


sort by: page size:

That's only true once the technology seems to be better than human driving. That doesn't seem to have happened so far, and is definitely not true of Tesla's efforts.

Just because Tesla isn't very good at making cars that drive themselves doesn't mean that humans are any better at driving those cars.

That's a limitation of Tesla's hardware (despite their, likely false, claims that their hardware is sufficient for self driving).

Yeah. Theoretically the claim is true (at least wrt. the sensors, not sure about computing power onboard). Tesla's hardware is already better than human hardware for this task.

The trick is, they'd have to advance the state of the art in software quite far, to derive "full self-driving capabilities" from this hardware.


Humans also have ears. And a sense of touch. And a sense of motion. And that supercomputer between the ears has decades of experience doing sensor fusion amongst all the various inputs down to the level of milliseconds of variation, and decades of experience of rising in cars and knowing what they feel is safe versus what is not, and presumably at least months of experience of control behind the wheel.

Tesla doesn’t have a lot of any of those things.


It's also questionable whether even the "full self driving hardware" claim is true, since "full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver" is not yet a thing which exists, and the closest vehicles we have to full self-driving capability rely on vastly superior hardware to that fitted to the Tesla.

This argument is a red herring. Tesla is a decade or more away from full self driving with nobody in the driver’s seat. Other vehicles doing autonomy today (e.g. Waymo) are clearly marked (and sport easily visible LIDAR, no less).

That’s why people many people think Tesla is behind on the path of self driving. It’s good enough when someone sitting in the drivers seat and paying attention, but that’s a long way from self driving.

I agree with this in principle. But I'm not at all convinced the technology is ready, nor that the Teslas are an appropriate platform without additional sensors.

The future is coming, but Elon Musk will not be the guy who ushers it in.

For one, this is just a dumb decision: It both means a crippled safety package today, and one less sensor one can use tomorrow. Considering Tesla hasn't actually developed self-driving capability, they can't actually say for certain if the hardware that is on the cars today is enough or not. (Any time they promise you've purchased a car that has everything it needs to do this, Tesla is lying, because they can't know the requirements of a system they haven't yet produced.) It certainly is only going backwards on the likelihood that there is once they start removing sensors.


Whilst that's true, it doesn't seem likely that we go from where we are now (Can't do autonomous driving) to a point where can get fully autonomous driving, and then to a point where we can do fully autonomous driving with the reduced sensors available on existing Teslas in a period of time that makes sense.

The major players are not doing it the way you describe. Tesla's driving system is not a giant model trained to imitate a human brain. There are separate perception, planning, and control algorithms.

Tesla has not delivered a vehicle that can drive itself. All of them require human drivers at all times.

Tesla’s self driving strategy is to throw more data at a neural network until it learns to drive. That’s as out of touch with reality as a person thinking they can learn to fly if they just flap their arms enough times.

>I think it's way further off than that, like, 10+, and almost certainly not without extra hardware being added to Teslas

Doubting like this is a pretty common view outside of Tesla, and we've heard it repeated many times here. They clearly disagree.

>Full self-driving is 90% edge cases. Adaptive cruise control is not a few incremental steps away from full self-driving

This they would completely agree with, as you can see from watching their recent autonomy day presentations. And they have an overwhelming lead in collecting edge case data, so... they're in good shape with that.


Your prediction is only good as your assumptions: that Tesla can achieve human-like levels of intelligence in under 10 years.

That is extremely aggressive. Getting data is the easy part of self-driving.


Maybe I misunderstood, but didn’t Tesla just prove this level of automation is still too far out? Or am I comparing apples and oranges?

No, Tesla is nowhere near self-driving capability. Collecting a bunch of unsupervised data on its own is not that useful.

None. And this is exactly the problem: Tesla might have a nice piece of silicon there, but that doesn't solve the problem of still being far, far away from having a working algorithm for level 5 self driving. They have a supercomputer in their cars, but can only run minesweeper on it, so to speak.

Their hardware (maybe, at best) solves one of the easy pieces of the self-driving puzzle. It doesn't get them any closer to solving the hard parts. But it sure helps from a marketing perspective, which is kind of important if you want to continue selling a $6000 feature that essentially is just a promise for the future and thus requires buyers to "believe".

next

Legal | privacy