Sounds like you're in a good place. Why New Zealand or Australia? On the surface, both places seem like great places to live and work, but what is your reasoning for choosing these destinations?
+50% higher wages for the same role. Many more career opportunities. The nation is not only richer, but has a much more dynamic business culture and four times the population as New Zealand. Lower cost of living. Far better amenities and infrastructure in the cities. Lower cost of housing relative to wages. Nicer/friendlier culture. If you're single, Australia has BEAUTIFUL women compared to NZ. Australia FAAAAR better weather. A bit too hot for me in summer but NZ winters are grey, cold, wet, and miserable. Housing stock in NZ is utter shit. I'm talking cold wind blowing up through the floorboards with 100% humidity inside. I lived in many homes in NZ before leaving and in every single one I would wage up with wet windows, blankets, bedding, etc., and only spending astronomically on heating would resolve it. NZ has really terrible rates of childhood respiratory illnesses for an OECD nation for this reason.
Public transport is SO SHIT. You'll be driving everywhere. If you end up in Auckland (which you probably will), prepare for a two hour commute each way unless you live in the city. I'm not joking. Unfortunately, you don't want to live in Auckland city because it's dirty, lacks amenities, is stupid expensive for the terrible apartments, and is actually really dangerous now. The Labour government has spent five years trying to reduce the prison population, and people are rarely given prison terms anymore. People are getting regularly assaulted now and perpetrators are being sent through a "restorative justice" procedure designed to keep them out of prison. In practise this means sending a letter to their victim and doing a few hours of community service.
The health system is juuust about to collapse. I don't mean that in the modern colloquial sense. I mean thousands and thousands of staff are missing from critical positions all over the country. People are dying now. If you go to the hospital for assistance, unless you're actively dying, you could be sitting in the waiting room for days before some intern hurriedly gives you a painkiller and sends you home. NZ had a funding freeze for all healthcare workers during covid. Why? God knows. Similar issues exist in the fire service. There was one day when only four emergency line operators were on the phones for the whole country of five million people.
This one you might find controversial, depending on your politics. The current Labour government is ALL IN on racial politics. New Zealand has something called the "Treaty of Waitangi." A document signed between some Maori tribes and England a couple hundred years ago. Property disputes are still happening. The government occasionally gives these tribes billions of dollars in reparation. This might be okay, but they're getting really aggressive more recently. At the moment they're trying to pass something called the "3 Waters" bill where they give half the governing rights to drinking water in most major population hubs to a small group of Maori tribes. Permanently give away control based on race. This is in addition to them setting up a separate health system based on race. I have a colleague in government in New Zealand who has to use Maori words in official communications now, in addition to saying Maori prayers each morning, and regular mandatory Maori "cultural knowledge" training. As you might expect, they are taught that science is a "racist white construct, and traditional Maori knowledge is just as valid." So now the government pays millions of dollars when building roads to consult local Maori taniwha (spirit monster) hunters. Just to ensure that the taniwha are happy.
I could go on and on and on. I'm glad I left. I strongly urge you not to go unless you are independently wealthy and love the outdoors. NZ outdoors is really nice.
I guess this turned into more of a rant. Something like 800k Kiwis live in Australia. There is a very good reason for this.
I love NZ... but I live in Melbourne, Australia and there are tons of kiwis here (including many close friends and colleagues). They come here because salaries are better, adjusted cost of living is less and there are just more opportunities for professionals.
Australia isn't perfect but I'm not really sure that NZ is a more attractive destination for tech workers.
Moved to Sydney from New Zealand and have been here for 6 years. I do like it here compared to New Zealand but I think I would move elsewhere given the chance.
The internet here is an actual joke, the politics are biased towards conservatism, don't think about owning an electric car but... the pay is quite good and it's a nice place to go out. Lots of nature and you can find nice apartments to rent if you look.
New Zealand by comparison is great but it's remote, expensive and has a low salary when compared to other western countries. It has been a while since I was there last, but public transport is hilariously bad - but if you enjoy nature and silence, it's there in abundance.
My company has offered to relocate me to NYC, which is interesting. Looking on YouTube at what the city looks like and it's pretty ugly if I am honest. Apartments seem to be small and you don't get modern style apartments even 45 minutes from Manhattan via public transport. I am concerned that my lifestyle would suffer living there.
I lived there for a year. My wife is a kiwi so we visit from time to time. Lovely people, scenery, and weather. You need to be near a major hub. Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch. Outside of that is mostly very rural and has little opportunity. Things are expensive. Rent is very expensive in the hubs. Almost to the point of crisis in Auckland. I worked remotely for a company in the US while I was there so I didn't get too good a sense for the tech scene but it exists. I attended a jsconf while there and about 100 attended. From what I heard, the wages aren't as high. The biggest company in NZ is a dairy company. I wouldn't recommend starting a business there. The labor laws are out of control. I was in Christchurch. Nice place but it is still recovering from the big earthquake a few years ago. There are still dozens of small tremors happening every day. I started to lose faith in the ground while living there which is a weird feeling. Utilities are so expensive that most people use woodburners to heat their homes. It was a great experience and we'll be going back some time. If you do it, try and get a remote job for an outside company and prepare to tighten your belt straps a bit. If you are into hiking and camping in your free time, there may be no better place on earth. The scenery is diverse and truly stunning.
In my experience New Zealand is more different from Australia than a lot of Australians seem to assume.
Generally speaking New Zealand is far more socially liberal than Australia, however there are greater financial / job opportunities in Australia due to it's size.
In New Zealand you're less likely to own a fancy new car or have has many expensive possessions but to me at least it didn't feel like you "need" them as much as in Australia.
There weren't many tech job opportunities in New Zealand given its small population, however I suspect the global rise in remote work coupled with New Zealand's relatively capable internet infrastructure may be changing this.
Entertainment wise while New Zealand hands down has more stunning, enjoyable, accessible nature and outdoors - while Australia pre-covid has a far more international offerings (musicians, comedy etc...).
Property prices are absolutely insane in both countries if you want to live in city / inner suburbs.
It's hard to explain but I've always felt that if Australia was socially and politically the USA, New Zealand would perhaps be somewhere in Scandinavia.
What's stopping me from moving back to New Zealand? - My life (friends, work, cat) is in Melbourne, if I was offered a good job opportunity back in the South Island of NZ and moving costs covered - I'd certainly be considering it.
Of course this is all highly subjective and only based on my experiences / observations.
If someone is a bit more ambitious but still wants a mix of the aforementioned lifestyle I would recommend Australia. Much bigger population and resources and better opportunities than NZ with a good safety net that doesn't cost the government much and doesn't suffer rampant abuse. I wouldn't recommend NZ for an American, except for perhaps retirement; it would just be too tough, the isolation and small pop. would be crushing for someone used to living in a giant country of 330M consumers.
90% of my friends immediately left the country after university. This is mostly due to low income employment and lack of potential career development.
Like most kiwis I moved to Australia (two and a half years ago now), my income increased by 50% just by making the move. People in Australia (Melbourne) also seem a lot happier and successful (by their own measures, whatever they might be).
For my friends and I, other than the beautiful landscape there wasn't much holding us to New Zealand and quality of life is better in Australia.
NZer here. Everything is expensive, there are some good houses, and local opportunities don't matter if you have your own business or work remotely for a US company (I've done both). With the right remote job you get paid enough to not worry about the expense. And NZ rocks: sane politics, great environment. And if you live in Auckland: great weather, diverse, great food.
Actually last time I was in NZ I ended up doing remote work for companies in the UK/Europe, it was a big factor in why I returned to London. It's a couple years later and while things are comfy here I do kick myself sometimes for not giving NZ a proper go re. a software dev job while I was on my WHV (working holiday visa). I think if I moved to NZ, I would have to work for an NZ company in order to possibly eventually qualify for residence, as I don't have any other ties to the country. Otherwise, I would definitely consider remoting for a foreign company.
I would've thought NZ would more attract people who are more interested in work/life balance and an outdoorsy lifestyle than people who are more interested in interesting tech/projects, for that you need to go to California or to metropolises like Melbourne/London/Berlin. At least this is what my stereotyped view has been.
EDIT: I misread that you were from Australia but in NZ, but actually you're in Aus.
NZ and AU are faring pretty differently. AU is wracked with crisis and NZ has been business as usual for ages. The key difference as I understand it is that NZ sacrificed easy international travel for domestic wellbeing and AU didn't.
Yeah, NZ national living in Melbourne, there's not much that could tempt me back to NZ. Property prices in Melbourne are more reasonable than Auckland, and salaries are far higher. Cost of living not much lower either.
A ton of young people leave, because NZ has low wages, very high cost of living, and is very isolating because most places feel suburban/rural and car dominated.
NZ is terrific if you’ve got family wealth to fall back on, but without you’re doomed.
I wanted to stay, but in spite of graduating top of my computer science class, couldn’t find decently paid work.
I moved to Aus 5 years ago and immediately >doubled my salary, could afford a house, and lived in an exciting city instead of a low wage semi rural small town.
Australia of course has many problems of its own, and in particular, treats poor disadvantaged people terribly. But NZ is grim for everybody except the already well off property owning class.
I left New Zealand for Australia about 9 months ago, and have no plans on moving back to NZ for at least half a decade.
I love New Zealand and I think it's an amazing country. I really miss it, and if I ever had kids, I'd want to raise them in NZ.
But the money and the jobs just aren't there.
I doubled my wages by moving to Melbourne from Wellington and cost of living is roughly the same. It took me 2 weeks from when I started looking for a job to getting an offer. My salary went from NZ$42k + 3% super and no bonus to AU$75k (NZ$80k) + 9.5% super + bonus. I'm sure I could've landed a better paying job here too, but I was living off my credit card so I took the first job that gave me an offer.
In New Zealand there just weren't many options for someone with 2 years of experience. There's a chronic shortage of senior positions, but for mid level positions, especially if you don't want to work with .NET or Java, there just aren't jobs available. There were about 5 open positions nationwide for a Ruby on Rails dev with 2 or 3 years experience when I was looking to move on from my job, before deciding to jump ship to Australia. In Melbourne, there were so many positions I was qualified for that I didn't even bother applying for most of them. I had recruiters ringing me every morning with new positions that I was perfectly suited for.
If you're trying to start a company, don't expect a lot of investment. Most startups in NZ bootstrap or get investment from family and friends. There just isn't a culture of venture capital in NZ. It seems like a very normal trajectory for an NZ tech startup is to get enough funding and growth that they can migrate to California. Xero is quite unique in that it stayed in NZ, although it's now listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. The lack of investment in startups is a cultural thing I think, and ties right in with tall poppy syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome. Our humility is both a source of national pride and also something that holds us back as a country. Of course, not everyone wants to start a unicorn, and that's fine, but someone needs to.
It does lead to a very different startup culture. There isn't that rapid growth in companies that you see in the USA, because there's less investment. The startup I worked for had been around for 3 or 4 years and only had 8 employees, the lack of manpower (especially developers) really held the company back. The business idea was solid, we made decent sales, but we were severely undercapitalised. Most startups, due to the investment situation are one or two person shops.
The tech startup scene is weird too, at least in Wellington, as it's so small. It's like this little incestuous community, full of gossip about different people and companies. I actually found it got quite catty at times.
It's a crying shame that I felt I had to leave (although money was only part of the reason), but like fuck I'm going to work for $20 an hour when I can jump on a plane and 4 hours later be earning double. NZ is a beautiful country let down by a low wage economy.
New Zealand is a pretty awesome place! I left my home of Scotland to do a years backpacking around NZ and ended up staying for 14 months. I didn't want to leave but my visa was running out so I jumped across to Australia where I'm now working on my residency.
What I loved about NZ is that you're always close to nature and amazing sights. I climbed a glacier, I walked through national parks and I visited some amazing beaches.
Kiwis are some of the nicest people I've ever met, though some of the younger generation seem to be similar to those UK.. lots of binge drinking and fighting.
Auckland gets a lot of bad press, it really is a lot different than the rest of NZ but one thing I will say: If you want to party then Auckland is a great place to do it! The bars don't seem to ever close!
There are some downsides though, Internet access in most places sucked ass and was expensive. Wages are low and the weather wasn't too great, though I'm used to that being from Scotland.
reply