Agreed, but that's not what I said nor even implied. If you're insisting on staying together for decades, and happily so to boot, that is a very high bar indeed. Such a high bar that only very few couples manage it. Few couples even manage the LVB.

No. If you want to have kids, you have to know that even if you divorce, even horribly, even catastrophically, that you can have a civil conversation as needed about the child for at least 20 years. If you're not sure, don't do it. Do not have a child. Spare the children and the world your children.

No offense, but that is a silly attitude. Marriage isn't about love, it's a legal contract two parties agree to. It entitles you to rights like power of attorney, ability to make health decisions for each-other, inheritance, etc. In addition, it also has non-trivial tax benefits, especially if one of you isn't working.

Honestly, having kids without getting married is pretty irresponsible in my opinion, simply because of the very important legal benefits that come from marriage.

But whatever, this isn't /r/relationships....

You're not required to have kids.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why even start a relationship if you don't get anything out of it. Never mind getting to the point where you start producing kids.

jeez man,you sound like an incel.

getting married is about having a life partner to share the best and worse of life together with. money is just something that happens.

Children dont have to happen but if they do, you'd have to understand that children change your perspective on what is important in life.

I mean, that's not really something you're entitled to.

As a counterargument, I've seen a few people turn into complete monsters once their kids were born. Their justification was "I have kids now and I'll do literally anything for my family, fuck everyone else and their needs." (paraphrased). It's all fine and dandy until the instinct for survival kicks in.

But the point of the stable family IS the kids.

Why not? We are many people who don't want to start a family, ever.

It's not OK even when you're single and childless as well. The fact that people think it is is revolting.

I cannot think of worse advice.

Congratulations to you that you found a life that works for you.

But the idea that people should just stop thinking and start procreating is absurd. Kids are a gigantic decision, the biggest one a person will ever make in their life. To not carefully consider that decision is utterly irresponsible, and to tell people to thoughtlessly have children without considering those consequences is equally so.

Don't wait for success or money if you want to start a family, there really never is a 'right' time.

I understood that was your point. The problem is that your point simply isn't true, and you've provided absolutely no evidence of your belief beyond your patronizing "some people realize this earlier than others".

I do think that intimacy is a necessary part of happiness for most people, but there are many ways to find intimacy besides a spouse. As for kids: people who don't ever want kids and end up happy are common enough that I'd consider it common knowledge. There are all sorts of families out there, and many of them don't involve marriages or children.

Ok when they give consent like your spouse. The to be born kid did not. Kids are not anyone's property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

I can think of one reason not to -- contrary to a popular belief, parents aren't necessarily as happy or satisfied as single people, and I suspect this is more likely to be true if the parenting decision is based on something orthogonal, like thinking of it as a way to deal with loneliness, rather than any real commitment to the activity itself.

"All Joy and No Fun ... Why parents hate parenting": http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/

Quote: " ... a wide variety of academic research shows that parents are not happier than their childless peers, and in many cases are less so. This finding is surprisingly consistent, showing up across a range of disciplines."

> ... just do what people have been doing for ages.

To me that's not much of an argument in favor of doing something. People owned slaves for ages, claimed that women were stupid and subhuman for ages, and burned original thinkers at the stake for ages.

> You don't need to share blood with your child in order for it to be a meaningful and fulfilling relationship.

> I'm from a large extended family that has overwhelmingly chosen to not breed and adopt children into our lives, when we are READY and WANT THEM, instead.

>> Fertility specialists would tend to disagree with your total disregard of reality, here.

For someone with such a high inherited IQ you sure do have poor reading comprehension.

That's actually not as hard as you probably think it is. More and more people (of both genders) are skeptical of child-rearing than ever before. Certainly any showstopper requirement you place on a romantic partner will reduce the size of the pool, but I think the pool of people who don't want children is plenty big enough these days.

At any rate, "I want to have kids because otherwise I won't find a partner and will be lonely" is a horrifyingly selfish and terrible reason to have kids, and if that's your thinking, you absolutely should not.

Two come to mind rather easily.

1) Someone that is going to commit suicide. Having a family that you actually care about would make killing yourself more complicated. Alone, someone alone could go through with the act without actually hurting anyone else.

2) Someone who's entirety of experiences with family have been... complicated. Just as a thought experiment; say someone raised raised a child by punching them hard enough to bruise or draw blood for every little slight, real or perceived. Then ensured that the child understood that they were being hit and injured out of love.

How would that child would view family after enduring that when they become a young adult?

>> my partner would like a big family...

>> She also grew up in a richer family than mine. She seems to be used to a higher life quality. I feel some pressure about it. but I have never talked with her about it for the fear for disagreement...

This is not about "career vs. family" but "your way of life vs. her way of life". If you want to build a company and try to make a fortune first and have a family later then you have to tell it to her. She may leave you, but hey, living your own life as a single entrepreneur is much better than living someone else's life as a married man.

Starting or growing a family is a terrible way to solve problems.

If interaction with kids seems like a good use of time, start by volunteering with mentoring organizations like Big Brother/Big Sister or Boys and Girls Clubs. Or help out with the kids programs at church/temple/synagogue if you're into organized religion.

If that pans out well, consider babysitting for foster families. Foster parents do incredible amounts of good for society and get run into the ground in the process. It seems simple, but giving them a night off here and there is a huge help.

If that goes well, then maybe consider adopting or starting a family. At any rate, there are a lot of young people out there that could use positive (especially male!) role models.