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Not when human lives are at risk.


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No. Because there is no clear and immediate danger.

This is talking about the personal danger, not the total societal impact.

Putting lives at risk doesn't carry sentence anymore?

That doesn't mitigate the danger really.

When human lives are threatened.

Well only if the danger exists, obviously.

Life and “security of person” are not the same thing as safety.

Yes, but they're so much less willing to put people's safety at risk, so really, they're way behind.

I disagree. The dangerous issues are precisely the ones that need more debate. The consequences of blindly following a single push are potentially cataclysmic.

Your last statement relies on the assumption that the authorities actually know what information will save lives. I do not believe that is true.

I do believe in the reasoning and self preservation instincts of most people. The way these experts have acted shows very little respect for the sanctity of the individual.


And, if the only people they were putting at risk by being out and about was themselves, that would be fine. But that's not the case.

It is an indisputable, historical fact that when you prioritize safety over human rights you will end up with an order of magnitude greater loss of life.

The only possible way to value and protect human life is to value and protect human rights, and that includes free speech. The minute you subsume those for safety (or as you put it, "human life", but we've also heard "for the kids", "terrorism", "immigrants", "communists", "monarchists", etc. etc.) you have not only given up your rights, but your life to the powers that be. And those powers do not have your best interests in mind.

These things are not separate, please do not turn this into a false dichotomy. We must protect both human rights and human life, but only by the acquiescence of our rights may they take our lives.


It absolutely cannot "protect the people [you] care about". It may, perhaps, lead to apprehension after the fact.

Safety of others is the domain of the government or regulator. And that, unfortunately, relies on the government being competent, and free from corporate influence. Neither of which are really the case in the US (nor much of the world).

It's probably better to act a bit too much than a too little. Human lives are at risk.

You're pretending to address what I wrote without actually engaging with anything I wrote. But that's OK, right: lives are at risk!

That's exactly the point. I am not including the government in my definition of safety. Rather, the focus is purely on safety from an illegal point of view (murder, rape, robbery, etc.).

I'd prefer to call relatively reasonable, unintrusive, low-cost attempts to prevent lethal attacks on large numbers of civilians "prudent".

My own "courage" doesn't give me the right to hand over the lives of others and my politics certainly don't either.

Any framing which disregards the trade-off is harmful. That trade-off needs to be discussed.


The “safety” they’re talking about isn’t about actual danger but more like responses that don’t comply with the political groupthink de jour.

There's no guarantee of safety in non-free societies either.
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