> If you want to be a supremacist, you have to be supreme to something, and anything that might question that (even hypotheses) is a threat to that feeling.
> What those people really need is to have their opinions challenged by outsiders. That used to happen more on the early internet.
This is your opinion, please don't present it as fact.
Feel free to spend your own time deradicalizing white supremacists, but don't insist that the problem is that normal people aren't being welcoming enough to white supremacists.
>Any kind of white supremacist behavior is not something to be treasured as freedom, because that enables their harmful behavior against other citizens.
But inciting on harmful behavior against white people is somehow the right thing to do?
I believe all people should be treated against the same set of rules.
> People who shun white supremacists are not morally equivalent to white supremacists.
I'm not suggesting anything of the like. In fact, I will join you in shunning white supremacists, as I would shun supremacists of any race.
When "shunning" becomes more than denunciation, but taking action to unperson people and have them fired, cut off their finance, and make false accusations about their peers, I draw the line.
If you want to keep believing in the moral superiority of that kind of social justice, be my guest.
> I was bombarded with recommendations of barely concealed white supremacists, and bizarre conspiracy theorists. I know that if I clicked on even one of them, then my recommendations will be full of that crap.
You were offered the recommendations, but you declined. It's still a matter of self-selection and self-exposure. How many recommendations would it take to turn you into a white supremacist? How many video viewings? If your answer is that no amount would, then the algorithms don't seem to be the real problem.
> This does not fall into the fallacy aspect as it is already happening, groups are already being exploited for ulterior motives to control thought. Part of having a background in security research leads one to detect vulnerabilities. This is a gaping vulnerability.
Part of being a minority is being afraid to walk in the streets because you don't know what kind of media a random person has been consuming [1]. Examples like [1] are many and will only become more frequent as some people succumb to hate and others exploit them.
> Let us be clear that inciting violence is criminal and not considered protected speech.
Of course it is, but why won't anyone think of the children, wink wink, nudge nudge. If only there was some hero to save us all from those monsters!
That line of speech is frequent in certain circles and a certain class has been hearing this on repeat for a few years now.
> Less people are dying today than have historically died from hateful conduct. You cannot crush hate out of a society with censorship.
I am not keen on crushing anyone, I am keen on continuing living. Being visibly trans in a backwards country with crazy people is terrifying. I do not recommend.
> Driving hateful behavior underground only emboldens the extremists. Only through education and the ability for an individual to observe how consensus genuinely rejects their hate can you change such attitudes.
What more consensus from broader society does one need than literally telling them that their speech and actions are harmful and they need to stop?
> you are appealing to extremes when you take into account statistics and history.
The funny thing when you think about statistics is that those events that people conveniently aggregate to cutesy little numbers are happening to real people with real friends and families, with their own dreams and aspirations.
For you I am just a statistic, a tiny minority that you can look from afar. But for me, it's my life.
>When we are aware that behaviors and symbols are hurtful to other humans, and we genuinely believe that other people should be able to live without fear, then we should change both.
Some of us believe that the answer to a world which is chock full of scary things beyond our control is to learn to live internally without fear, not to impose our personal delicate sensibilities on upon others. This isn't cowardice and this kind of shaming only turns moderates away from your cause. Furthermore nonsense like microaggressions are effectively a form of thought control and when whiteness is treated as some original sin together with a completely subjective system of rules you have a social structure which is effectively designed to be abused for the transfer of power, while ostensibly claiming to be a champion of equality.
Are you really surprised that people turn away from an ideology which treats them as though they owe the world something, or need to change their behavior, for the color of their skin? We used to call that racism. Now it's increasingly normalized and shoved in our faces if we want corporate work. Frankly, people are tired of the bullshit and I'm worried about how far the pendulum is going to swing back.
and I need to kill the <undesirable group> isn't sincerely held?
I think you have to believe pretty sincerely to be radicalized to the point of committing murder.
> Regardless of how we feel about it, everyone has the right to feel love or hate or superiority.
Why? I was perfectly happy living in a society where that was not the case. Where freedom of expression is guaranteed, rather than absolute freedom of speech. It's not flawless, but it's better than nazis murdering people all the damn time.
> If the Nazis self-identify, and the most famous cases indeed did, I can't say I'm terribly concerned.
You should be. Normalizing a behaviour encourages more of that behaviour, and outside of the original context.
> Publicly espousing the view that some people are naturally inferior not by creed but by nature, and that you intend to impose physical consequences on them for that nature, isn't compatible with a free society
Sure it is, as long as that view remains fringe, which it is. Encouraging or even tolerating violence against such people emboldens them and their claims of persecution, and the violence itself generates sympathy. You're better off ignoring them and addressing the factors that cause people to gravitate to these ideas. That's where we're failing today.
> Willfully ignoring that these people are attempting to get organized, and co-opting whatever gets them traction, is unhelpful at best and dangerous.
You've got it backwards. Allowing their words to control your actions gives them power over you.
Are 'dank memes' now racist also just like Pepe?
Imagine instead of 'It's going to involve pepe' he said 'It's going to involve breathing air and drinking water', or some other common and popular thing.
Do you give such idiots the power to control your actions over some common and totally innocuous thing that you might otherwise enjoy or find amusing?
That is called being played for a fool and that is what gets them traction.
> So, your answer to someone feeling distaste for fascists and racists
There is a lot to unpack there. You already have a prejudiced and a bias going into your thought of them based on their choice of only two real options. Think about that.
You are looking at the world through a straw, almost with an ideological lens of religion. Politics are the new religion in ways, and yours is terrifying.
> You think you have it all figured out and you 'get it' now
I've spent over 7 years undertaking a variety of formal approaches to deep personal introspection, and I've never felt less like I can, or anyone can, "have it all figured out".
But one thing I've learned a thing or two about is the tendency to ascribe the greatest threats and wrongs to some easily-identified "other" without paying adequate attention to the failings and risks in our own group and within our own self.
For what it's worth I spend vast amounts of time thinking about what kinds of approaches to eradicating bigotry and oppression might actually be effective, and what role a humble individual as myself might be able to play in moving the needle over the long term.
To suggest that this is a matter I believe is "not going to hurt anyone" is about as wrong as you could possibly be.
> You can support the right to be a Nazi while strongly criticising it.
You have the luxury of never having seen your country and culture being taken over by Nazis. Never living with the regret of being tolerant of Nazis. I have. It sucks.
It's so easy to talk in platitudes like this when you know your own life won't be affected in any way. How about supporting the right of QAnon adherents to spread their poisonous propaganda? What about when you see it's support growing rapidly? Would you still support it if it looked like you might be living in a society where the majority are QAnoners?
I know the answer to that question. And so do you.
Yes, Sometimes I am too naïve for my own good
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