Just as the documentary dramatized things, that rebuttal does the same. Taking small points in the movie, ie, the roman gladiator thing, and hype it up as if the movie made some grandiose claim about gladiators being the pinnacle of achievement.
The main argument that game changers proposes is a rebuttal to a long history of meat eaters and the meat industry claiming you need meat and dairy to be an athlete. That's false, and that's what the movie shows. There's also lots of benefits to eating a vegan diet and it showcases that as well.
The reason there aren't a lot of studies showcasing people who only eat grass fed beef that they killed themselves with cows they love is there simply isn't enough people doing that. Meat consumption leans drastically towards processed meats or bulk beef and chicken output. So naturally that's what these studies are targeting.
I believe you can make most diets healthy when adhering to rules of freshness, nutrient density, and a wide array of nutrients.
Just like how you can have an awful diet as a meat eater, you can have a awful diet as a vegan. It's not hard, just have white pasta with no vegetables and you have a carb dense vegan meal.
We don't need everyone to go vegan, but I think society would be better off if almost everyone (in America at least) believe they needed meat in the meal to feel full. We have an obsession with meat, but not in how it actually arrived to our plate, but in a don't ask don't tell philosophy. The general advice of "eat a lot of everything, mostly plants" is a good one and doesn't exclude meat and dairy, but it probably means to reduce your consumption. If you're someone who gets milk from your local farmer who also raises cows they have named and care for then you're probably fine, otherwise, don't think vegans are just crazy idiots, they may have a point.
That documentary is rife with inaccuracies as well. It's a consequence of having a bunch of wealthy Hollywood folks convert to veganism, and then jump on board with pushing a diet as the be-all/end-all.
It's one thing to claim (accurately) that a good, careful vegan diet is healthy for a person and very healthy for the planet. It's a whole different ballgame to claim that a healthy vegan diet is nutritionally superior to any and all diets that include any form of animal products, which is essentially what Game Changers claims.
There was a rather entertaining and informative debate about Game Changers between a bad-ass vegan MMA fighter and another nutritional expert on Joe Rogan's podcast, and one thing they both end up acknowledging is that Game Changers is a propaganda film disguised as a documentary.
Perhaps you did. The documentary does sound quite compelling. There is no doubt that switching to a vegan diet from a standard processed food diet will see improvements. But those athletes built themselves up as omnivores.
Some examples from athletes in the film:
-Griff Whalen: went vegan 2014 out of the league 2016
-Bryant Jennings: went vegan end of 2013 (17-0 before vegan, 5-2 after vegan)
-Mischa Janiec: went vegan fall of 2015 - no wins 2 years after
-Kendrick Farris: went vegan 2014 -performed poorly in the 2016 Olympics
-Patrik Baboumian went vegan 2011 - 5'-7" and never ever part of the World Strong Men competition.
-Morgan Mitchell went vegan 2014... in 2017 finished 26th place world championships
-James Brett Wilks went vegan 2011, retired from MMA in 2012
- Lewis Hamiliton suffered depressive breakdown on twitter
Typically within 2 years after going vegan, performance goes down. So veganism based on many of the athletes in the film is a sub-optimal diet for athletic performance.
As to your comment about the Amazon, we aren't eating Amazon beef. You're right it's being cleared, to make way for soy and other processed food. When you buy a steak from the butcher it's not coming from the Amazon, it comes from your local butcher, from a grass fed field, using less carbon then your bananas from Panama.
I have nothing against vegans, but the "Game Changers" movie is biased propaganda promoting a particular narrative. It is not a valid source of scientific facts. They cherry picked a few anecdotes, and even some of the movie subjects consume certain animal products such as eggs.
It was made by a guy who trains soldiers in deadly unarmed combat. He got injured and read that a vegan diet could speed up recovery. Instead of trying to convince with ethical concerns, it gave me plenty of sound logical reasons to eat vegan.
The reason for me to eat organic meat was B12, but 39% of the people eating meat still have a B12 deficiency.
80% of farmland is used for animal husbandry, the size of Africa!
We can feed way more than seven billion, if we farm more efficient.
And when the strongest man in the world got there being vegan, i can skip animal products too.
> Being an athletic vegan is borderline impossible in my opinion.
There are a great number of vegan athletes that disagree. E.g. Patrik Baboumian, one of the strongest people alive, is vegan. America's best Olympic weight lifter (maybe not currently but has been), Kendrick Ferris, is vegan. Keep an eye out for the release of the moving "The Game Changers" [1] for more.
There is an advocacy* movie called The Game Changers which highlights several vegan athletes and makes the case that their plant-based diet contributes to their success. https://gamechangersmovie.com/
* I would not consider it a documentary as it has a clear agenda, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
> If you're a professional athlete trying to be vegan, then sure, you'll end up with a weird diet
Professional athletes that are actually vegan are 4 sigma outliers. For most normal humans it's not possible to even be a more-that-casual athlete in any competitive sport eating plants. Animal meats contain more than just protein including things like iodine, creatine, vitamin D, etc. A quick google brings up numerous studies on the nutritional deficiencies of the typical vegan diet you would need to rely on external supplementation for. Keto diets and other fad diets are also not great for the competitive athlete.
If you're vegan because you don't want to eat animals there's nothing wrong with it. When the vegans start pointing to the outliers as evidence "it can be done" it's just a deep cope to make everyone as miserable as them.
Replace "vegan" with "stop cruelty". It's not a diet. It's a mindset not wanting to cause unnecessary suffering.
Why would you want to continue funding a cruel and biosphere destroying industry (factory farming) if you don't need their products to survive. In our society eating animal flesh is mostly to experience culinary pleasures. If you look at it from a logical perspective, it doesn't make sense, all that waste and inefficiencies in that system - tech folks should appreciate that.
Veganism doesn't mean you're automatically on a healthy diet. You can be vegan on Pringles and Coke.
Game Changers just shows you can thrive at an athletic level on a plant based diet.
We humans gave up other horrific practices from the past - so the future is vegan (reduced cruelty), but we don't have to wait - we can start now.
They eat all the nutrients in meat, just in pill form. It's not very convincing. Also they have tons of problems with insulin resistance and supplements have tons of flaws. Most of these athletes are spending much more and destroying the environment much more than the equivalent amount of meat or eggs would do.
I don't think we're going to move away from an ecological collapse unless we stop using pesticides.
Most vegan athletes don't last too long. I'm of Indian heritage, so I'm well aware of vegetarianism.
I should also mention that there are many, many ways to do a vegan diet wrong. The studies probably don't include too many sources of sugar, which is probably the bane of a vegan's existence since they're constantly looking for blood glucose in order to do things as their body can't use gluconeogenesis as there is less protein (and therefore more cortisol!).
That's kinda circular isn't it? "Since they made a movie it has to be fake"?
Come on my friend, at least try. And without even thinking about my nutrition I am a healthy vegan since 9 years, not taking supplements and eating cheap localish food.
To be totally clear, I've seen it and am vegan. My comment is a sarcastic tribute to the typical response to the suggestion people learn what their dietary choices involve.
No disrespect but I see this "I'm an athlete, I need more protein" thing all the time. It's yet another meme that has spread that has the convenient side effect (or main effect) of shutting people off from considering the effects of their food choices. There are an abundance of plant-based protein supplements for hitting your nutrition targets.
I don't know if you're talking about the broader community of people who self-identify as athletes but I'll restrict the discussion to professional athletes for the sake of clarity.
Here's a few household-name professional vegan athletes:
* Venus Williams
* Lewis Hamilton
* Colin Kaepernick
* Kyrie Irving
* Tia Blanco
* Meagan Duhamel
Veganism isn't very popular in general so I'm not sure if this "if professional athletes don't do it, then it must be bad" argument holds. I'm also not even sure if that claim is true. If we could compile a list of all professional athletes, find the vegan population, and then compare that to the general population, I would wager that veganism might have a higher percentage in the athlete population than the general population. Pure speculation, though, and obviously I'm biased. But I follow lots of vegan channels and they're very proud and vocal about vegan athletes and it's the kind of news that I think you won't be exposed to unless you're inside the vegan community. In other words we should both acknowledge that there's a lot of selection bias / echo chamber at play here and I don't think either of us can definitively say whether veganism is more popular or less popular among professional athletes.
The point of the story is that not everyone can do a Vegan diet and still be healthy. While this is just one example it does demonstrate the principle that meat is a necessary and vital part of some peoples healthy eating.
I sometimes wonder if Vegans worry about Lions on the savannah eating antelope. Do they want prevent that as well. Humans are Omnivores. We are built to get nutrients from both meat and plantlife. Our metabolisms work best when we eat both in moderation. A Vegan lifestyle makes it harder to eat healthy not easier and for some it makes it impossible.
1. Plenty of animals get killed in the creation of vegan diets so that isn't an argument you want to make.
2. I think maybe you missed the point I'm making about dealing with reality as it comes. Food is as inexorably connected to human identity as religion; no top-down law, rule, or diktat will ever work – and anybody who tries it will be overthrown.
The main argument that game changers proposes is a rebuttal to a long history of meat eaters and the meat industry claiming you need meat and dairy to be an athlete. That's false, and that's what the movie shows. There's also lots of benefits to eating a vegan diet and it showcases that as well.
The reason there aren't a lot of studies showcasing people who only eat grass fed beef that they killed themselves with cows they love is there simply isn't enough people doing that. Meat consumption leans drastically towards processed meats or bulk beef and chicken output. So naturally that's what these studies are targeting.
I believe you can make most diets healthy when adhering to rules of freshness, nutrient density, and a wide array of nutrients.
Just like how you can have an awful diet as a meat eater, you can have a awful diet as a vegan. It's not hard, just have white pasta with no vegetables and you have a carb dense vegan meal.
We don't need everyone to go vegan, but I think society would be better off if almost everyone (in America at least) believe they needed meat in the meal to feel full. We have an obsession with meat, but not in how it actually arrived to our plate, but in a don't ask don't tell philosophy. The general advice of "eat a lot of everything, mostly plants" is a good one and doesn't exclude meat and dairy, but it probably means to reduce your consumption. If you're someone who gets milk from your local farmer who also raises cows they have named and care for then you're probably fine, otherwise, don't think vegans are just crazy idiots, they may have a point.
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