All the arguments I've read from cost to where the get them apply to Europe as well?
I'm sure homeless people here as well tend to not have renewed documents if you talk about class.
I've never seen a school ask for proof of address in Europe.
As for banks, it depends a lot on the country. While it's an issue for the homeless, it shouldn't be for people who're staying at some temporary accommodation. For instance in Germany, where most banks ask for proof of address (the registration at your municipality), it's also trivial get a valid document from whoever is hosting you (landlord or main tenant, it doesn't matter, you don't have to be on the lease).
ID cards are not free in Europe either and no you can't make them in each village. Every time this topic comes up here someone posts a vox article writing that you someone had to go to a bigger city to get documents because where he lives was 3000 strong population. Heck, there are places where you HAVE to vote by the law and yes it does take a small effort to get documents and keep them updated every 6-8 yrs.
> If your ID has your address printed on it, then you are lucky and can just take a photo of the ID and yourself holding the ID. If you don't, then you need to go to a notary and sign a special form provided by Sectigo.
That's the problem ID's don't have addresses printed on them in most European countries. So you have to get a notary and this is really expensive. There is a system to proof your place of residence here without a notary but these companies don't accept them.
ID costs here in Europe too, but it's valid 8 or 10 years so it's not a huge problem.
Someone is posting this link about one dmv being opened only 4 days a year for some reason but the population of that place is ca 3000 people. In Europe you don't have a dmv in a village and you get it done after every ten years at some bigger city or town.
> Compared to the UK where you need to have some utility bills or bank statements as proof of an address, having an ID card with an address is a lot easier in practice.
Well, no.
You already have bills in your name, so there is nothing to do.
On the other hand, regarding ID cards (in France): First there is no obligation to keep the address on it up-to-date (so why is there even an address on it?). Second, if you do want the address to be up-to-date then you need to follow the administrative procedure to get a new ID card, which involves providing... a proof of address in the form of an utility bill!
1. The people can keep track of a card for 10 years.
2. They can afford to pay 20-30 Euros for something they only use for voting, since apparently they aren't involved in any other part of civic life that involves having an id.
1) Since there is Freedom of Movement and no border checks in the European Union, the only way to determine where someone is actually resident is if they register it. Health Insurance is mandatory in Germany. I am would have thought an American health insurance provider would also want to know someone is actually resident in America before they signed them up.
2) Only for businesses. It seems pretty sensible to me that someone who is taking money in return for the future delivery of a product or service should have some legally watertight method of contact, and not just an e-mail address which might bounce, or a contact form. You also only have to identify the person who is willing to be the legal contact for the content, it doesn't have to be the actual owner/author.
3) As said by others, you only have to produce it later, not on the spot. In some countries the idea of a mandatory ID is anathema, but as I see it modern society is not really possible without proof of ID, and countries which insist on not issuing ID documents effectively end up with an poor unofficial substitute. In the US the driving license and SSN is effectively the mandatory form of ID, it just isn't very good at it since it wasn't designed to be one.
In Germany and Europe (UK is outliner) you pay a fee for ID card, but it's valid for 10 years or so and cost is around 20-30 euro. Really don't understand what's the panic about in America, you don't have to do and pay it every year.
The fact is that I had the EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) when I came to the UK. It's validity is 2 years, and they (officially) do not accept documents which are outdated. How do I then even prove I had it for 5 years?
That card had never been required at the NHS either.
Took me another £300 (lawyers, official printing excess) to just get the right documents supporting that and I still had no idea if they would even be accepted - because their support line is absolutely oblivious (and to be clear - that is the only support channel they have, outside lawyers themselves who can only advise based on their experience, rather than a set of written guidelines).
The sad thing is that you can still get away with it. But I can see how that turns a huge amount of genuinely honest people away too.
As an American who lived in Italy in the 90s, it was a notable difference to me that people are legally required to carry papers. US law descends from English Law, and as I understand it, the different legal philosophy from continental Europe includes ideas about whether you are a citizen by your own rights as a person or whether those rights are conferred from the state or at least somehow authenticated by the state. (I'm probably getting the language wrong)
Anyway, the distinction is abstract, and probably has few real world implications, but legal requirements to carry identification, or to register your official residence are among them. It is also an issue that comes up when people are confused outside the US why we have issues around voter ID laws.
Though I can't speak to the ease of relacting between EU countries as an EU citizen, I can imagine that the UK could give the impression of being more open just because you don't necessarily have to enter an imposing building with door buzzers to obtain registration which might feel like you are having to ask permission.
> European and developed world thing and use IDs with proper identification methods
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps "Europe" to you only refers to some rich Scandinavian countries?
In Eastern Europe ID cards are frequently issued solely on the basis of witness statements, fraud is very common.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of "fraudulently" issued European passports in circulation. If you go walk near embassies in Chisinau, you'll be approached a plenty of people offering to help you procure one.
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