Downvote all you want, it does seem to me that people are simultaneously anti-vax and pro-lockdown. To wit, here is an article showing how rare the clots are:
"German regulators said they had received 31 reports of rare blood clots in the head in recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine and nine deaths up to March 29, roughly doubling
Cooke said the EMA will include the Germany cases in its review "and they will form part of the ongoing evaluation that the committee is undertaking, as will any additional cases that are reported from other countries and regions.”
Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far, there have been 4.8 cases of the rare blood clots per million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered, she said."
The European Union medicines regulator has reiterated there is "no indication" that the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid jab causes blood clots, after several countries paused their rollouts.
European Medicines Agency (EMA) head Emer Cooke said she remained "firmly convinced" that the benefits of the vaccine outweighed any risks.
But even if the blood clots observed are in fact due to the vaccine the numbers are so small that it seems to me irresponsible to suspend vaccination and to publicise this so much.
> The EMA has said that as of March 10, a total of 30 cases of blood clotting had been reported among close to 5 million people vaccinated with the AstraZeneca shot in the European Economic Area, which links 30 European countries.
"The decision today is purely precautionary..." given this level of signal. We don't have details on the age groups involved and the normal rates expected but I can hazard a Fermi Estimate that the risk is minuscule compared to COVID-19 itself. I look forward to seeing the actual data in coming days/weeks. Precaution without downside is acceptable; this is not one of those cases, IMO. YMMV.
> doesn't automatically mean that your opinion is better and more informed than that of health authorities across EU
I agree that health authorities know better than I do, but i don't think i'm disagreeing with any health authorities. There are some health authorities saying its safe to keep on using it and there are some temporarily suspending while the situation is being investigated out of an abundance of caution. Unless i missed something, not a single one is saying that the vaccine is unsafe or confirmed to cause blood clots.
> I'm just venting about what I perceive to be HN propensity to take risks on other people and dismiss concerns
There is no risk free view here. Less vaccinated people means more people with covid, which among other things means more blood clots because covid can sometimes cause that (although obviously that's not the primary concern with covid).
Obviously if we can confirm a link between the blood clots and the vaccine, we should stop the vaccine. But as it stands the evidence is extremely weak bordering on non existent, and stopping using that vaccine will cost lives.
Also AstraZeneca keeps getting suspended due to blood clots. I think we're up to 7 or 8 countries now? Canada was the most recent I remember, but I think most have resumed now.
The running theory appears to be that in rare cases, that vaccine results in antibodies that attack platelets, causing a weird reaction that results in clotting.
> The [International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis] recommends all eligible adults continue to receive the #COVID19 vaccine, despite recent decisions by some countries to at least temporarily suspend the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine due to reports of thrombosis. Read the full statement here: https://isth.org/news/556057
> unclear what level of side effects or potentially deaths would have to be in order for the product to be removed from the market
I'm not familiar with EMA procedure. But with the FDA, it's clear. Entire rule books about the risk ratios clear. Billions of dollars spent on tuning those risk ratios to every demographic clear.
44 reported out of 9.2 million. As many as Germany has Covid cases every 9 minutes [0]. Nearly half of Britain has received at least one shot [1], compared to the EU, which has struggled to get to a double-digit rate [2].
This is a low-frequency alleged side effect that should be investigated. But the matter's narrow impact, ambiguity and timing, right after the EU's inability to procure and distribute vaccines came to light, is convenient.
Reports it as 10x the normal occurence of 3 per 100k. (and I assume that's before doing further slicing, probably slicing for younger women would show even more impact?).
Regarding AZ, the paper refers to EMA data from three weeks ago[1], which under normal circumstances would be very recent, but in this case I guess it's rather old.
I looked up official numbers[2] from Germany from yesterday: about 4 million AZ first dose vaccinations, 55 reported cases of CVST, 11 fatal (6 women, 5 men).
Since the CVST occur within a week or two after vaccination, you'd expect a few more cases causally related to the 4m vaccinations, so around 15 cases per million vaccinations and around 3 deaths. That's higher than the number they cite, but still much lower than the number they arrive at for Covid.
Where did I mention the NHS?
I'm referring to the government downplaying the impact of the vaccine. Which could be true, because millions of people got the vaccine and only a few had the clot issue. But I would rather believe the german version on this.
At least the german Paul-Ehrlich-Institut (which is responsible for the decision here in Germany) states [1]:
> "The number of these cases after vaccination with COVID-19
AstraZeneca is statistically significantly higher than the number of cerebral venous thromboses that normally occur in the unvaccinated population. For this purpose, an observed-versus-expected analysis was performed, comparing the number of cases expected without vaccination in a 14-day time window with the number of cases reported after approximately 1.6 million AstraZeneca vaccinations in Germany. About one case would have been expected, and seven cases had been reported.
1 expected vs 7 observed seems significant. Of course, with tiny rates like that it's challenging to draw a clear conclusion.
> refusing to get the vaccine if they hear it's Astra-Zeneca, because of all the overblown nightmarish news around it
Here is a small problem with this that makes me also consider if I want to take a shot with AZ even if I registered for it months ago waiting for my place:
Before EU started discussing the issue with statistical signifiant number of cases of blood clots in vaccinated population UK Reported 5 cases of blot clots in vaccinated population.
After EU talked second time to suspend vaccination with AZ lo and behold UK discovered that it missed in previous months to report 25 more cases.
Now should I trust any of these agencies that they are telling the truth? I am starting not.
But I had a mild COVID and I am sure after experiencing those symptoms that I really want a vaccine. I am not willing to experience a reinfection.
> At the risk of sounding cold...they seriously suspended it because four people showed issues? Out of more than 100k doses?
No, not even that. Ireland has given over 100k doses and had zero reported issues. They are suspending it over 4 reported issues across the entire EU that don't even have a clear link to being caused by the vaccine.
The UK has given millions and millions of doses of this vaccine and there is no clotting epidemic there.
The very first sentence of the article makes it clear that Germany is neither the first nor only European country to suspend AZ vaccinations:
> making it the latest of several European countries to hit pause
The article also cites the EMA, an EU institution, and notes:
> Several EU countries have called a halt to the AstraZeneca vaccine
Would you have them list each and every country individually? It seems, to me, that you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Expect better of HN comments.
Well, the vaccine was halted in Germany because the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, which is not a political entity, had this to say:
"Compared to the status on 11 March 2021, additional cases (as of Monday, 15 March 2021) have now been reported in Germany. Analysing the new data status, the experts of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut now see a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia) and bleeding in temporal proximity to vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca.
The data are being further analysed and evaluated by the European Medicines Agency (EMA).
Vaccinations with AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine in Germany will be suspended until the EMA's evaluation is complete. Today's decision affects both initial and follow-up vaccinations."
TL;DR Lone Norwegian physician proclaims he’s pretty sure there’s no other link to blood clots, so it must be the AZ vaccine. Flying in the face of the European Medical Agency[1], the World Health Organisation and the UK’s medicines regulator.
"German regulators said they had received 31 reports of rare blood clots in the head in recipients of the AstraZeneca vaccine and nine deaths up to March 29, roughly doubling
Cooke said the EMA will include the Germany cases in its review "and they will form part of the ongoing evaluation that the committee is undertaking, as will any additional cases that are reported from other countries and regions.”
Based on the numbers reported to the agency so far, there have been 4.8 cases of the rare blood clots per million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered, she said."
(https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210331-eu-says-no-evide...)
reply