I had a fully loaded P15 three years ago - I can't really comment on trackpad - I only use it in rare situations like traveling and doing work in a coffee shop where I can't really pull out a mouse. Keyboard was great but then again I use a BT keyboard and an external monitor 90% of the time anyway. I switched from that machine to a fully loaded i9 2018 MBP - and while that's more portable and has a better screen the thermals and the performance is waay off, not to mention this thing sounds like a jet plane about to take off as soon as I start a VM and play a video. Also the keyboard is utter garbage in comparison.
It's a chunky device and I haven't checked out the lates ones, but if I wanted a portable workstation with a great keyboard I would get another one for sure. Right now I'm leaning towards getting a desktop and a ultraportable I can use to SSH to the desktop when I need to work on the go - but the HW market is a joke right now, I'm probably going to wait it out till Q3/Q4.
I got a new MBP 15" through work and I was also hesitant about the keyboard, touch bar and trackpad. I previously had a 13" MBP. I actually love the keyboard and trackpad. I find it hard to use the old MBPs with the smaller trackpad. The touch bar is mostly used for spotify and that's about it. Using the FN keys are fine. I wish it wasn't there but I don't think it's a reason not to buy a MBP (if you are willing to spend the money).
This is exactly why I picked up the older 2015 13" MBP for work a couple of weeks back. Just trying out the keyboard and the annoyingly large trackpad for a few minutes at the Apple store was a big NO.
Is the older MBP still value for money? Probably no. But its still a better choice for most.
I actually _upgraded_ to a 2017 MBP 13" without trackpad for 13 days. It was _OK_ but not enough of an upgrade to justify an upgrade. Dongletown wasn't fun either. I returned it for a refund.
I want to upgrade at the moment (8GB of RAM isn't ideal for my uses), but I can't justify the upgrade just yet. I'll really miss MagSafe and a HDMI cord slot.
I'll agree with you on the keyboard, and even the heat issues.. but the mac trackpad is the main reason I'm still on a macbook pro. I also like the better display. However, Lenovo was a pretty bad actor just this past year. Beyond that, I happen to like the metal chasis on the MBP, though I'd really love to see anodized aluminum in either black or oher colors available... but then I'd also like to get user servicable batteries, memory and standard drives again.
Here's the thing - I am big on ergonomics, keyboard and trackpads are always a super high priority for me.
At my desk I have a Topre Realforce 88UB 45g keyboard that cost me like £200, a Razer Blackwidow for gaming, and a Microsoft Sculpt to switch it up.
I'm fairly big on keyboards, but I do love the new MBP keyboard.
I can't remember the old one enough now (I had the 2014 model previously), but I know I spoke of it as the best laptop keyboard - so I agree I probably rate it more than this one, BUT I am so used to typing on this now that I really don't think about the keyboard as a con in the slightest - you have to sit with it for a few weeks and you'll be flying - I break 120wpm on this because there is practically no travel.
What I DO hate, is that effing touchbar. Worst design decision on this laptop. I am 'over' it in that I can work fine with it and don't feel like it hinders me anymore, but everytime I look at it I get annoyed they are still sticking with it.
The only two cons of this MBP now it has a spec refresh -> touchbar sucks and not having ONE USB-A slot really pisses me off everytime I reach for the adapter...
Imagine buying a MBP but using it at a desk 90% of the time... I'm perfectly fine using the machine while traveling but mostly use split keyboards with a non-QWERTY layout at my desk. I've been around enough computer users to realize that there is no "one-true device" that will be ergonomic and RSI-proof for 100% of users. Folks should listen to their body and take action when it complains.
My biggest complaint about the MBP was the lack of Trackpoint. I've survived. My work forces me to have both MacOS and Windows machines, and I'm very happy with my MBP. The P1 and sluggishness of Windows are huge letdowns.
I feel you. I have the 15" mb pro at work and the only place I can use it is at my desk (with external trackpad+keyboard). The massive touchpad is driving me crazy to a point I don't want to even carry the damn thing around.
Yeah I dislike the bigger trackpad. There’s nowhere to comfortable rest my hands on it. At work they gave me a 2018 MBP and after 2 weeks of suffering I returned it for a 2015 version.
I don't want to discount your experience by any means. And there's no denying that the price is very steep for the new MBP. But, other than price, I'm really satisfied with the new 15" MBP.
In particular, I do actually really appreciate the larger trackpad. But I'm a heavy user of BetterTouchTool and have always regarded the trackpads as one of the main reasons to get a MacBook. I don't even bother with three-finger drag now thanks to the size of the trackpad.
I think the Touch Bar should be considered for what it is: a replacement for static function keys. Apple of course hyped it like they hype everything. But considered realistically in context I consider it a success. I actually do use it some. Some of the simplest things work the best; for instance, I really like the options presented when taking a screenshot. I also enjoy using it for music control, scrubbing through music, and switching between music sources (including YouTube tabs). Nothing revolutionary, but then again, how could it ever be given what it is?
To be fair, I have both 2018 MBP 15 (work) and 2015 MBP (home), I notice the weight of the 2015 a lot. Performance has been relatively the same - hasn't been mind blowing if I'm honest.
I really do hate the new keyboard to the point where I simply don't do any dev work until I plug in my dongle with my screen/keyboard. It's really that bad. The touch bar has been useless as well and more of an announce sometimes, especially when it would freeze randomly.
I used a MBP for 6 years, professionally, and this past fall switch to a Dell Precision 15". The new macbooks have a terrible keyboard, lost the magsafe connector, lost the lit apple symbol (loved it, because I could put an amusing sticker over it), have a ridiculously sized trackpad that I was constantly touching, only two USB C - one of which is always needed for power, and replaced the top set of keys with the "meh" touch bar thing. You can only get 16 GB of ram, and the guts are just fine.
Windows 10 + WSL is awesome, the only minor issue being some permissions stuff. I find Windows 10 to be a more interesting, an effective interface. The only thing I miss is that the Mac trackpad has a bit better detection for when I accidentally brush it. Otherwise, I'll take my 3 USB C, 2 USB B, HDMI, SD, and audio ports any day - all of which I have used at some point in the past 6 months, incidentally.
The new Mac keyboard alone was enough to make me want to toss the laptop into the trash. But, hey, it's slightly thinner, so you know, major productivity gains there!
I agree here. I really don't understand some of the bashing that happens every single time the Macbook Pros come up in HN comments.
I was a longtime happy owner of a 2015 15" MBP until earlier this year when I decided it was time to upgrade to a refurbished 2019 16" MBP. I was a bit nervous at first but I have to say that I have no major complaints, other than the fact that I wish I had F keys instead of the touchbar. Contrary to everyone else, I really like the keyboard.
As for solving the touchpad issue, I use Pock [1] which I read about on HN. It removes the need for using a slider every time I want to adjust the volume or brightness and lets me control Spotify and see what song is currently playing.
I also have a 2018 15" MBP for work. If you believed the comments here you'd think that I am unable to type or use the damn thing. Honestly, after 1 week of use I'm already used to the keyboard. Not having an escape key kind of sucked, but I have rebound caps lock to escape on all of my Macbooks and enjoy that even more than having an escape key.
My other complaint is that the trackpad is a bit too large - I find myself accidentally hitting it sometimes and it just seems excessive. Finally, it's a shame that you can't mess with the battery/RAM/SSD yourself but unfortunately that's more of a trend for the industry than just Apple.
Overall I'm a totally happy user on both the 2018 and 2019 Macbook Pros. I was quite nervous about the possibility of having to use a Windows PC for work when I started my new job. And don't even get me started on having to use a Pixelbook at Google.
Bringing your laptop to meetings, or being able to remote in from home (taking it with you) are pretty huge benefits to usability. Though I do prefer a real (manual switch) keyboard, the touchpad on the mbp is awesome, and would actually be okay with that over a mouse.
Beyond that, the 16gb ram limitation is sometimes an irritation... All upgradability is locked out, which is sad. Prior to around 2011, I would always buy at the midrange and upgrade ram/hd a year in. I miss that option, but they want that extra $$$ from you.
I do 100% on my development work on a 2015 MacBook Pro. I work remotely from different places so I value the consistency in my work flow (same keyboard, same trackpad). I would've normally already purchased a new MBP this year but I'm actively considering alternatives for the first time in 8 years due to these keyboard issues and the idiotic touchbar issue. Currently looking at Surface Pro and Thinkpad X1.
How's the touchpad? What's kept me on Apple is the ability to actually use the MacBook Pro as a portable computer, not just a crappy desktop you can drag between the power and mouse+keyboard stations that you need to get work done without swearing at it constantly or frowning while you watch the battery life indicator plummet.
The keyboard and port situations are both pushing the MacBook far enough out of that "close the lid and go, no worries" sweet spot it used to fall so solidly into that I'm eyeing other options, but I have some very bad memories of both battery life and trackpads on non-Apple machines, and my (limited!) interactions with such more recently haven't made me optimistic.
It's a sad state of affairs. I use the new MBP with touchbar for work and it's a nice machine except the touchbar and dubious keyboard (I can live with it). I just wish it wasn't so user-hostile and objectively good features like magsafe hadn't disappeared. I've already had my work laptop yanked to the floor multiple times by people because the charging cable is much shorter than previous generations.
I've pretty much been looking at the same list as you but have concerns over build quality / trackpad / random design choices like a webcam pointing up your nose. Not sure what I will do yet, will likely hang on until next refresh and see if there's a new 15mbp without touchbar.
My wife is using a 2009 15" MBP with SSD and original spinning HD moved to the opti-bay, and maxed out RAM -- same upgrades for me except I have the late 2012 MBP 15".
The trackpad is one of the main reasons I love the mac book pro's -- the PC laptops all have such crap trackpads I just can barely stand the computer at all--on my mac I never use an external mouse -- ever. I think the stupid / dirty / lame reason Apple switched to the retina MBP's is that they are easier to force people to upgrade.. super difficult to upgrade hardly anything, super lame..
I use VMWare Fusion like crazy and its awesome.. with a fast quad core CPU, SSD, and ~8-16GB of RAM, VM's are awesome on the MAC.
I couldn’t use it long enough to unlearn using the trackpad as a crutch. Thinkpad trackpads are pretty terrible by comparison. I also hated trying to use windows and didn’t want to keep maintaining a Linux install, though that might have gotten better lately.
I am going to ride out my personal 2013 mbp until they fix the keyboards on the new machines. I have a new one at work, and each incremental fix still breaks after a while and I don’t think they have ironed it out. It’s a beautiful feeling machine and I want to love it. However, you can get everything else perfect and screw up the keyboard, and it doesn’t matter because I can’t get work done.
If they don’t get it right by the time my current MBP dies completely I guess I’ll see how far Linux has come. I’d suggest the same for you - even as an apple shareholder and former employee I can’t recommend a programmer buy a laptop with such an unreliable keyboard. But if they nail the keyboard in the next generation, absolutely hop aboard the bandwagon.
Pretty much it comes down to the flaky keyboards for me. USBC support is just getting better, the displays and trackpad are still best in class, and a lightweight aluminum unibody design is something I didn’t think I would miss but you absolutely do. The OS is widely supported by a community of other developers, and it is super easy to set up a productive development environment. And the OS is widely supported by hardware and software vendors too, so you don’t have to fight compatibility issues nearly as much as Linux.
It's a chunky device and I haven't checked out the lates ones, but if I wanted a portable workstation with a great keyboard I would get another one for sure. Right now I'm leaning towards getting a desktop and a ultraportable I can use to SSH to the desktop when I need to work on the go - but the HW market is a joke right now, I'm probably going to wait it out till Q3/Q4.
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