This isn't really true in my experience. I have an Outlander PHEV and the costs associated with maintaining the electrical system have dwarved the ICE maintenance costs. The other major expense has been tires, which electric cars also have.
> EVs also have much higher costs in repairs, maintenance and car insurance.
Not sure about the maintenance cost being higher here. The only things that need regular service are brake and tires as all of the moving parts of an EV are contained within an electric motor assembly that are very reliable across manufacturers.
By contrast, an ICE vehicle is loaded with moving parts, all of which need lubrication, have wear profiles that demand replacement occasionally, need to pass emissions testing, etc.
Plus you have to look at the total operating cost. Electric cars need basically no maintenance while ICEs you have oil changes and brake changes plus a more complicated engine.
EVs have less maintenance costs than ICEs in general, but they have particularly less maintenance requirements during the for the lifespan rental companies keep their cars, often less then 30k miles. During that time you are really just looking at oil changes, fluids, and filters, which EVs don’t have or have less of.
Later in a car’s lifecycle you’ll start seeing things like tires, brakes (better with regenerative!), and trim start needing replacement, along with the battery. My older ICE’s most expensive maintenance issues in the last 2 years were the window regulators all failed- that has nothing to do with the power train.
Which is all to say EVs are cheaper to run overall, but they are suited to save even more money for rental companies than individual consumers.
Though I do think EVs to be better in terms of maintenance. I've had family members drive multiple ICE cars (Corolla and Civic respectively) over 200,000 miles. I honestly doubt modern ICE is that expensive to maintain.
There is no reason an efficient ICE can't have cheaper maintenance than an EV.
In this day and age, reliable ICE drivetrains are pretty much a solved issue if you're not trying to make tons of horsepower (which they're not)
Most of the maintenance with a modern ICE has nothing to do with the drivetrain. Tires, brakes, suspension components, filters, all things that EVs still have (brakes get a respite from regen, but the extra weight takes the savings back for the tires).
Oil changes with modern synthetics and low performance demands can be 15k+ apart.
Then there's the fact you can get an ICE drivetrain repaired anywhere and fuel up anywhere.
The cost of building up a repair and charging infrastructure alone would probably have killed any savings.
This is not an anti-EV post, but it is an anti-antiquated-ideas-about-ICE post.
And it sort of makes sense that ICE’s are cheaper to maintain. There is about 100 years of experience with building reliable engines and doing maintenance on those things versus about 12 years for EV.
Also ICE’s are still way ahead in energy density (energy per kilogram/pound) even if you count the big engine with it
Engine work, transmission maintenance or rebuild, replacing fuel pump, belts, alternator, etc. these are all totally standard and very common repairs for ICE vehicles no matter how many miles you say you’ve driven without having to touch them…
EV maintenance costs have been well studied at this point and are lower than ICE, and for very sensible reasons, it’s not a mystery or a canard.
There have been many many studies. Here’s a random one;
> ICE cars don't really lose range, but they do degrade faster in ways that EVs don't
I understand ICE have more moving parts, but this doesn't really hold up. If you DON'T INCLUDE battery costs, then EVs begin to be cheaper in maintenance after ~3 years (in the first 3 months they cost ~2.3x more in maintenance and this figure gradually reduces). However, there have not been significant studies that go beyond this range which is when battery issues/replacements start to factor in. I wouldn't be surprised if after 10 years maintenance costs for EVs would again be higher than for ICE
Used ICE cars have all sorts of failure modes that EVs don’t. More parts get physical wear, and once a car gets old enough something is always breaking, and all that adds up in cost. It’s pretty clear EVs need less maintenance over time, though I don’t know where the break-even point is. I suspect batteries will continue to get cheaper over time as well.
Aside from initial purchase price, more expensive tires are the other thing working against total lifetime cost of EV's vs ICE vehicles. More than offset by all the other savings on gas, maintenance, repairs, moving part replacements, fluids, brakes, time wasted stopping at gas stations, etc.
Not really. The lifetime of the drivetrain will be about equal all told - 600k-1m miles. Long Term, I suspect repair costs will end up being equal, because battery lifetime is proving to be about 250-350k (based on Toyota hybrids), meaning by the time the vehicle is fully worn out, you'd have replaced the battery pack 2-4 times (at around 5k each) In addition, while an electric car saves on oil changes, it still needs some form of lubrication, it still needs tires, windshield wipers, brakes, body system repairs (gauge cluster, electrical, comfort systems, radio, etc), the you also need to consider suspension wear, which becomes relevant right around 300,000 miles.
In the short term, Electric cars win, hands down, they're cheaper to run per mile, but over a 20 year lifetime for a vehicle, I think ICE vehicles will tie or prove slightly better than an electric vehicle for costs.
Zero maintenance is not a realistic calculation. Maintenace on an EV might well be lower than on an ICE car, but it's not zero. And the battery pack will eventually need to be replaced (I guess if you're leasing though, that's not your problem).
Maybe I'm the outlier (mostly newer cars?) but I've never had to do more than take cars in for regular maintenance at service intervals. Most of the costs were for wear items like tires, brakes, wipers, cabin air filters etc. or for suspension things alignment. None of that is any different between ICE and electric cars.
I don't think I've ever had an actual drive-train issue.
> maintenance costs are lower for electric vehicles
I think there is a <citation needed> here. Do ICE drivetrains really constitute a large fraction of the maintenance costs on cars and buses? In my experience, suspension and steering, and auxiliaries, are the things that break.
But the same is true of ICE cars. Transmission, engine, catalytic converter, fuel pump, alternators (not to mention routine maintenance like oil changes). EV's win on ongoing maintenance, and even if you have to replace a battery at an authorized dealership, you will still come out ahead versus the maintenance cost you would have otherwise paid.
In terms of 'catastrophic battery failure' compared to 'catastrophic engine failure' - not sure the EV would lose that battle either.
In short, yes, EV's have a finite lifespan, but so do ICE cars, and ICE cars are much more complicated, with many more expensive components that can fail, and are extremely expensive to replace.
Hybrids are more expensive to maintain than Evs, you have 2 systems that are linked together, the ice half requires very active lubrication and cooling.
You talk about battery refresh costs, but a hybrid that uses 85%+ of the capacity on every trip will wear much quicker than the EV that uses 10% of its capacity on 95% of trips.
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