What is the point of the "nobody thought I would steal their stuff" comment then? It only makes sense if you assume poor people are thieves. In this case it was correct, but I don't think it's true in general.
"Because they have never been poor, they had no idea what I might do. Why would I steal, when everyone clearly has enough?"
The assertion that "poor people are more likely to be dishonest" betrays a view of poor people that isn't very nice. Rich people are just as likely to steal if they think they can get away with it.
That is such a dumb lie, poor people steals from other poor most of the time. They steal since they want more, they don't care how much the other person has they just want easy targets.
Because they prioritize preventing the damage to society over their own personal gain. The point is that the decision to commit a crime boils down to putting the individual benefits over the harm being inflicted on others, which is why it is naive to say this kind of theft only happens because people’s needs aren’t met. Not only does this imply that all poor people are committing crimes (how could they not, when their needs aren’t met!), but it also implies that crimes aren’t committed among the non-impoverished population, both of which are clearly false.
> Come on, the problem is not that it's easy to steal, the problem is that society has constructed situations for some of its citizens where they for one reason or another do it.
I assume you're talking about poor people. I don't know how much experience you have with lower socio-economic people in the US, but from my experience, most are honest hardworking and industrious. Some are immigrants without a formal education or even language skills that came to this country for opportunity.
It's a little offensive to deny them basic autonomy to not steal and trash a rail-yard. The people that I came across in my life that do petty crime like this are not poor desperate people. They're usually highly anti-social borderline sociopaths. They're organized by informal networks of other people exploiting them. There's organization involved to keep lookout, know when and were to go and how to avoid getting caught. And if you get caught, there is a whole system around that as well. And since they're organized, they are fully aware of the risk-reward tradeoffs. This includes the recent trend of being soft on these kinds of crimes or looking the other way, as you're doing.
Think about the skill you need to pull this off. You need to be young and physically fit, to run from police. You have to be able to keep a lot of information in your head and make snap decisions about what to open, what to keep and what to toss. You have to show up on time and plan. The people doing these heists could easily be employed as warehouse or delivery workers and make an honest, probably even more lucrative living, especially when you consider long term risk of being arrested. They choose not to.
There are a lot of poor people who are not thieves.
I’ve always felt this framing condescends to them. Sure, there’s certainly more incentive to steal at the academic extremes (bread for your starving family), but people raiding trains for packages is something else.
There should be police response to this, and people doing it should get charged.
Would you mind, then, further explaining what you meant when you said there was “no question” you’d resort to stealing if you were poor, and how you can “easily determine” this? To me that implies one of two things: either you believe the only thing stopping you from stealing is not being poor - or you believe the same, but for everyone else who is poor as you observe them from afar in your state of comfortable privilege, to use your own term. (It also strangely implies that stealing is the only option for the poor in this country.)
Either way your statement as it stands is highly disrespectful of the millions who are fully capable of being dirt poor without resorting to theft and other crimes.
But that's the whole point. These thefts aren't people going hungry feeding hungry needy starving mouths. You have some people wanting to believe it's only people who have no other recourse to dying --they have to steal. No, most destitute poor people do not steal. They do without, go live with relatives, friends, beg, sell blood, dumpster dive, etc., but they're not gravitating toward UP boxcars. Those are run of the mill opportunist criminals.
>I think they are being robbed because it's easy to do so, with a low risk for any consequences. Similarly as to why shoplifting in LA is up.
Ok, then why aren't you robbing or shoplifting if it's so easy and risk-free? Is it because you have too much to lose if you get caught?
My whole point is that if people have a minimal standard of living, the fear of losing it will prevent them from committing crimes much more effectively than some nut shooting at them
Due to the lack of police enforcement and prosecution by the courts, a segment of the populace has figured out that they can do things like this and get away with it, with no consequences.
There's a segment of the population that seems to believe this kind of looting and other theft/crime is largely a product of poverty; that if we would increase the minimum wage, have more affordable housing, and generally improve the conditions of the working poor, that these crimes would go away.
I believe that kind of thinking is dangerous and foolish.
> Nobody would steal if he could get something of his own some easier way. Nobody will commit burglary when he has a house full.
is complete nonsense when contrasted against modern times.
All the thieves in jail are not there because they stole to feed their family or some other noble deed.
(1) make sure everyone has enough and they won't steal
(2) promote a culture that stealing is unacceptable regardless of your situation
I don't personally believe (1) is sufficient nor will it solve the problem. Most people stealing are not "that" poor. They are not starving etc...
Instead they (we) have a culture that it's acceptable to steal. Even many well to do middle and upper middle class westerners feel like it's a right of passage to steal a few things, to shoplift once in a while, etc...
The places I've lived where theft is low didn't have much absolute poverty but they also had a culture of stealing is wrong almost regardless of your situation.
I have no clue how to promote that culture. it seems an impossible task. I'm confident though that the majority of the issue is culture , not poverty
Being poor is not an excuse for criminality. These people aren't stealing bread to live or clothing to not freeze. They are stealing valuables ("Louis Vuitton purses, designer clothes, toys, lawnmowers, power equipment, power tools") because they can, knowing their poor status will cause people like you to express sympathy for them and thus allowing them to get away with it.
They aren't stealing out of necessity - they are stealing because they can.
The purpose of that statement was to point out that it's not like it's hardened criminals stealing novelty items, but homeless and struggling individuals needing basic necessities.
But sure, you're welcome to be as cynical as you'd like.
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