My point is that just because I heard an acid attack outside my hotel in London, it does not make me qualified to criticize London or those who choose to live there.
Just as someone who visited SF a few times and saw some feces (etc) is not qualified to criticize SF or those who choose to live here.
Right, but if you heard an acid attack outside of your hotel three visits in a row, it’d be a different story.
I’ve spent six years in the Bay (SF and Berkeley), and the unfortunate truth is that the feces, homelessness, and public drug use have become prominent features of today’s SF.
That's my point. It's a matter of perspective whether or not you find SF dirty. If you come from a cleaner place, you're going to feel like it's dirty. Berlin isn't much cleaner, and there is a homeless problem too (though likely different in cause), so you're not likely to go to SF and feel like the criticism others are passing is as bad as it sounds.
…Nobody seemed to be affected? Are you on drugs? People died.
And yes, I have been to SF and LA. I have walked through the tent cities and seen the people defecating in the streets. That was never the question, and your whataboutery is not constructive.
Funny thing is that she leads in to her outrageous statement by pointing out that San Francisco is a unique case worldwide. It is the only city in the world with the specific problem that outrages her.
Someone with a few IQ points would analyze that data and suggest that, if SF's problem is unique, then SF is doing something that other cities are not (or vice versa) and therefore the problem is simple to solve. Just figure out what SF needs to do the same as other cities, and the problem goes away.
I've heard it suggested that the problem is simply that SF does not have enough free public toilets. I used to live in London England, with lots of homeless, and we had no shit in the streets. Used needles, yes. People shooting up as you walked by, yes. Urine smells from the alleys, yes. But not shit.
London had a rather clever solution to public toilets. They had those low rotating gates that you had to put a coin in to enter the bathroom. Of course homeless folks just jumped over the barrier or if there was an attendant, begged to be let in the wheelchair gate. It worked. The streets were kept relatively clean.
Some would say that London tolerated petty crime, i.e. people jumping over the gates, but no city can work without some tolerance.
Imagine saying "Yeah, there are human feces all over my living room and kitchen, but the bedrooms are clean. Overall it is a great place to live."
Whenever I visit SF I run into someone who looks like an extra from a zombie movie every time, without fail. Sometimes they "violently beg" by lunging at your feet as you walk past. Scream obscenities. Offer stolen goods at red lights. And if you somehow don't see them you can certainly smell them.
Just because we collectively got desensitized doesn't make all this OK.
>flush with urine smells, mentally ill homeless, an embarrassing public transportation system
urine: no worse than London, where I moved form.
mentally-ill: more than London, and it doesnt bother me
transportation: bad enough that (as in London) I ride a bike everywhere
weather: better
start-up friendliness: much better (than when i left in '06)
Not liking SF is fine. Besmuding the judgement of its residents to fit your own tastes: not so fine :p
Seems like a selfish and arrogant answer, but at least it's honest. The reality is, you're one bad encounter away from agreeing with me. You just haven't had to experience the worst of SF. After cleaning up messy human feces and drug paraphernalia on your property for years I'm sure you'd come around.
You're limiting yourself to specific areas of SF then. Every time I've visited there has been human shit everywhere. It smells different from dog shit.
> people doing utterly foul things like pissing or shitting
Based on my (very limited) experience of SF, that seems like an area-wide issue. I've travelled reasonably extensively and SF is the only place I've been where I've suspected more of the shit on the path (inside and out) was human than canine.
Yeah, the way he phrased his blog post is terrible. The guy is clearly not a writer.
But my parents are visiting me from abroad in a few months (I've lived in the Bay Area for about 5 years now), and I'm legitimately afraid something dumb will happen. I usually just walk fast around town, pre emptively avoiding people who seem to be in a universe of their own (and I'm a pretty tall/wide guy, so i've never had a problem fending off loud/obnoxious people when they confront me individually), but my parents will be in leisure visitor mode, and I don't want my mom to have to deal with a coked up naked guy yelling at her.
Is that entitled? Yeah, maybe. But I'm not mad at the homeless people - I feel for them. I'm mad at the politicians of SF, who can't properly give a support network to the mentally ill in our streets. Other major world cities aren't in the state of disarray that SF is, so it seems like something that can largely be improved on.
I applaud bringing up some of the unseen issues, especially regarding mental health, of the area.
But if you walk down a street in SF you risk stepping on a needle or human feces. It's a catastrophe and some of the issues raised here seem to pale in comparison.
Just because there are dirtier cities out there doesn't mean SF is clean (and, like any other city, there are dirtier areas and cleaner areas). Depends on where you come from, I guess. The author seems to come from Washington - I've only visited it briefly, but I definitely got more of a "clean" impression there than in SF.
Coming from Toronto, that was definitely part of my first impression - "dirtier than I expected", and "whoa, I didn't expect so many homeless". I still love the city, but I don't think it's valid to dismiss the criticism just because there are worse cases out there.
its not an objective fact to say sf is full of needles. and its not an objective fact to say homeless people are there because of heroine or drugs. your repeating right wing nonsense by saying things like that
Then why do I see so many homeless people who are clearly in need of help in SF? Why do I see people being kicked out and shouted at? Why do I see people publicly shouting at bus stations? Or people randomly saying "fuck you".
I was there for 2 days, out on the street for at most 2 hours during my whole trip. I'm also simply minding my own business.
And it wasn't my first experience like that there. The other time I was there a guy followed me banging a cane on the street, talking about Satan and Jesus while rhyming. I walked into a hotel with security in order to get away from him. Or a woman screaming at me while she wasn't looking at me.
It's frankly ludicrous. I'm simply reporting what I saw there and it sounds crazy while I'm rereading my comment.
In Amsterdam I've experienced a lot things, but nothing like this and definitely not in such a short amount of time.
> Am I just not staying/walking through the really bad parts?
Next time walk down Howard until you hit 6th St. Talk a walk up 6th to Market Street. Then take your pick of Eddy or Turk for fecalspotting.
Also, the shit residents experience is usually there in the morning and someone washes it away by noon, so if you're attending conferences during the day, you probably won't see it by the time you get out.
Personally, I would say San Francisco's cleanliness is similar to Paris', but with more overt drug use.
Come on dude. People aren't talking about the "weird" or quirky aspects of SF. We're talking about fucking needles, and human feces in the street. Stop protecting this shit by labeling it as something other than human suffering and a public health disaster.
So, SF is not a clean, beautiful, and safe city, considering that the part of it with all the interesting stuff also happens to be drowning in a putrid combination of feces and needles.
It's just like saying that Earth is a lovely place, as long as you avoid breathing the atmosphere and drinking any of the water. Look at the forests! Hope your spacesuit's faceplate doesn't become pitted by the acid rain.
I visited SF a tourist just over a year ago, and I didn't experience any of the issues being described.
Sure, in places, there were homeless people sitting in doorways, and some of them asked whether I could spare any change - much like homeless people in many other cities. I didn't experience any of them shouting at me, shooting up drugs, demanding money, or peeing in the street. I didn't notice anywhere smelling of urine (although the sea lions around Pier 39 where a little bit stinky).
SF has its issues, like most cities around the world, but I don't think they're as severe or widespread as is being suggested.
My point is that just because I heard an acid attack outside my hotel in London, it does not make me qualified to criticize London or those who choose to live there.
Just as someone who visited SF a few times and saw some feces (etc) is not qualified to criticize SF or those who choose to live here.
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