Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

And Christel Dahlskjaer was (still is, the CCO) an employee of Lee's company, Private Internet Access, when she sold Freenode Networks to Freenode Limited.

It wasn't hers to sell, even in her capacity of head of Freenode Staff at the time.



sort by: page size:

From the Arstechnica article:

In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee.

Sounds like some money exchanged hands.


Interesting. So how much did Lee pay for Freenode? Did that all go to Christel Dahlskjaer?

the thing is, IMO, that once Christel shut down the PDPC (the entity behind freenode a long time ago), Freenode just became "Christel" owned. And Christel sold everything under shady reasons (without really saying everything was sold) to Lee.

Some resignations letters say that it seems to say this.


> Oh come on, you can't be that cynical?

Christel Dahlskjaer, the former head of Freenode's staff who transferred her interest in Freenode Limited to Lee, resigned in March. Dahlskjaer, with the help of Richard “RichiH” Hartmann, took over Freenode after project originator Rob Levin (lilo) died in a traffic accident in 2006 and Levin’s brother tried to turn the project into business. She was an employee of PIA at the time of the Freenode Limited transaction.

What did Christel Dahlskjaer do next?

https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04...


> In 2017, Christel Dahlskjaer—who was, at the time, head of Freenode staff—created a corporation, Freenode Ltd., which she immediately sold to Lee

Dahlskjaer incorporated Freenode Limited in August 2016, contacted Lee about a possible acquisition in March 2017, and finalized the sale in April 2017. That's hardly immediately, and evidence to support Lee's involvement with the incorporation isn't currently public.

> Escalation in April

Before any of these events, Lee's long held access to freenode's DNS account was revoked and requests for that to be reverted were declined, along with threats that staff would quit if the revocation was not honored.

> A week after Lee's effectively public announcement of ownership and de facto dictatorial operation of Freenode, the staffers who resigned from Freenode created Libera.chat as a replacement.

Libera Chat was created April 23rd, before any control was transferred to Lee, 5 days after Fuchs' post and 7 days before the testnet was shutdown. It was only publicly announced on May 19th.


The core of it is simply that the person who was head of Freenode staff at the time (an employee of Lee's, also) sold something to Lee that was not hers to sell. After promises from Lee to not interfere, the staff later found out this was not the case and left to create a new home for the projects hosted on Freenode. Whether those projects move is entirely up to them.

The ownership chain of Freenode was

1. Rob Levin/Lilo, personally

2. Open Projects Network

3. ???

4. PDPC

5. Christel, personally

6. freenode ltd.

7. Andrew Lee (via freenode ltd)

After PDPC, what christel personally owned to transfer to freenode ltd to sell to Andrew Lee is... hard to define. A domain and a website, sure. But christel didn't own the servers, did not employ people, and does not have any agreement with the users, something which continued into freenode ltd. And apart from the users, operators, servers, and domain, it's not clear what an IRC network is to own.


Christel, the previous freenode head of staff, sold freenode to andrew lee (then of PIA). This was downplayed at the time, both publicly and to staff, so this is effectively delayed drama that would have happened in 2017 otherwise.

Christel stepped down, new staff lead shut out Andrew Lee, not realising the depth of his ownership - helped by both Christel and Andrew Lee downplaying it in the past. When it became clear that "Freenode" was owned by Andrew Lee, and not the volunteer run organisation they believed it to be, drama ensued over whether she had the legal right to (probably yes), whether it was morally appropriate to (probably not) and what she actually sold (Freenode runs via volunteer staff on loaned servers, none of which freenode ltd owns or has contracts for, so it basically just owns a domain and a website).

After the legal discussions found that Andrew Lee did legally own whatever freenode itself owned, the staff all quit and formed libera.chat, their own network. Andrew Lee brought in new staff to freenode and some policy changes (notably allowing network ops to reclaim channels that were abandoned as redirects, and toning down the code of conduct portion).

More detailed timeline: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27236455


> Christel "sold" Freenode to Andrew Lee (of which was not hers to sell) and never told the rest of Freenode staff the terms.

If this is the case, is anyone pursuing a way to invalidate the sale?


Christel was the head of staff and created a limited corporation in the UK to manage freenode’s name and trademarks. What’s unclear is how much “freenode limited” owns in terms of the network itself.

Do you have evidence to support the implication (for Lee to be lying, as you claim) that Freenode is owned by Private Internet Access?

> In 2017, the then head of staff at Freenode, Christel Dahlskjaer, incorporated it as Freenode Ltd and sold it to Andrew Lee. <...> the incorporation and sale was done just to sponsor a conference.

What a crazy turn of events for such an old project. Thanks for the link.


> Some time ago, Christel, the former head of freenode staff sold `freenode ltd` (a holding company) to a third party

Couldn't help wondering - where did the money go? If it was sold for cash.


As above, Andrew Lee said Freenode was not owned by Private Internet Access.

It doesn’t appear he was lying, because by all accounts he owned it personally.


He is not the leader/owner of the project freenode. Freenode the project has moved to libera.chat.

Lee owns Freenodes servers and user data - althought illegitimately. You can't buy the ownership of a volunteer project like that.


Christel only legally owned anything of Freenode to sell to Andrew Lee because she took it over in the dissolution of PDPC. If PDPC never legally owned Freenode, it would be owned by... Rob Levin's estate? So I think PDPC did own Freenode in some form.

> Then recently, that head sold said company to Andrew Lee's company,

Not recently. In 2017. Why did freenode staff support (or at least refuse to engage in complaints about it) until now?


Lee owning the domain does not make him an owner of freenode. It's a community project.

> In 2013 Freenode was sold to PIA for undisclosed sums and terms.

Sold by who? Christel alone? The brother-of-original-owner? What exactly was sold? The name? Server data?

next

Legal | privacy