I considered for a few minutes that you might have meant "people who aren't pregnant with the specific fetus in question should shut up".
But I ruled it out confidently: The situation where a bunch of people are weighing in on a specific abortion is not one that really comes up, whereas people discuss abortion in general nonstop. You had just said that you aren't opposed to the other potential parent and medical professionals having input in a specific abortion. It doesn't make any sense to phrase that idea that way- having a functional uterus has no bearing on whether you're the one who is considering an abortion. And the other reply also interpreted you as saying men shouldn't comment on the issue and went uncorrected. Taken together, I thought there was no way that was what you meant and I was being excessively charitable.
I misunderstood, but I think you could have been clearer.
But a pro-life woman is demanding the same amount of control over others' bodies as a pro-life man, less one. And a pro-choice man is not advocating for any control at all. Your conclusion should be that only pro-choice people should voice their opinions, not people with functional uteri.
If you're a man, you have no right to have an opinion about abortion. Only a woman can truly understand what it means to be pregnant, to give birth, to bring a new life into being. A man might have a possessive, proprietary attitude about it, but it's a removed and intellectual understanding at best. A woman understands it from her gut, from her body.
To hear men pontificating about how women should behave is ludicrous, and sad.
The context didn't require any opinion either way - just a list of contentious issues.
There are already plenty threads here and on the net discussing abortion - you are just stating your own beliefs without any justification, or attempt to address the crux of the topic.
Also, what happens with rape victims? Or you know, women often know about their pregnancy weeks after the event?
Also, you are literally less likely to die from donating your kidney then a women giving birth. Do you really have no empathy whatsoever? Giving birth is brutal, you have a no matter how disgusting it is to write but technically a parasite growing inside you sucking out every resource you have causing often life altering changes. And we are not even at birthing.
I am also a guy by the way, but that is exactly why I believe that the only opinion we should have on the issue is to listen to women, and the only voice we should have is to shout over old men deciding on a topic not concerning them.
That's one way of looking at it. But pro-lifers don't see it that way, so I was just presenting another point of view. I don't think telling them to stfu is productive.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that point, but if you're expecting to have productive discussion here, and not be downvoted and flagged into oblivion, I would suggest you frame things in less inflammatory and absolutist terms.
It's stuff like this (from another post of yours) that shows your ignorance of people's views:
> If someone can't agree that (a) the current state of climate change is bad, and (b) women deserve bodily autonomy, their opinion simply doesn't matter to me. IMO they also shouldn't be around women.
I agree that women deserve bodily autonomy, and I'm fine with abortion if it's a choice made freely, but there are tens of millions of women -- 43% of women in the US[0] -- who believe abortion is wrong. Not sure how many of them also want to impose that view on other women who don't share their views, but I expect that number still ranks in the millions. Should those women not be around... themselves?
There is no philosophy or spectrum required. It is an issue between a man and a woman at an extremely personal level. If the man is not involved then it is for the women to decide. As for when in the pregnancy the baby should be terminated plenty of medical doctors have given their opinion and most states with abortion rights have a reasonable cut off. It is not a complex issue as my original point states. People are brainwashed into thinking it is so they ignore all the pressing issues. Any man that pretends to care about this issue is not a man but a brainless droid. To bring religion or philosophy about when life begins is turning a simple issue with simple cases and edge cases into an issue that cannot be agreed upon. Men who care about abortion have no life and should use their energy to do something useful
Look, if someone thinks women shouldn't have the right to have an abortion if they choose, you're right, I am not going to tolerate that debate. I don't believe there is a debate. I'm sure there are a lot of topics you don't think are up for debate. We all have our lines in the sand.
I think most women have thought about abortion to some degree and formed an opinion on whether it's the right choice for them, or under what conditions they would entertain the idea of an abortion versus keeping the child in an unexpected pregnancy. In these cases, you're right: discouraging women who have thought about the process would be seen as in bad taste.
But what if the woman was being pressured to abort (or to keep) the child by outside pressure? Then intervention would be seen as supporting the woman, not as interfering, and it'd be in good taste.
IMO, suicide is very similar. A large proportion of suicide attempts are people who go on to regret it and successfully seek treatment. I don't think it's too much of a leap from that to the idea that a large proportion of suicides themselves are being done for the wrong reasons, i.e. the "outside pressure" of a brain that is suffering a mental illness.
You are required to help people in need, but not at the expense of your own safety. Calling 112 is enough.
Abortion is not about killing, it's about not having a being in your body, potentially wrecking it and killing you. In the same vein, you can stop supporting dependent adults, as an individual (doing that as a society is a different matter). You can just stop. It won't kill them in that case, but that is not what this is about.
If pregnancy was nothing for your body, no stress at all, then carrying to term and giving it up for adoption would be a lot more common. This dimension is often overlooked by people, especially men, I feel. Pregnancy can be insanely hard and dangerous.
“The issues” themselves aren’t even fully agreed upon, especially if they’re not believed to be core by everyone.
Everyone believes that the start of human life is a core issue. It’s the basis for the pro-life movement. It’s also a core component of the pro-choice movement (that it doesn’t start that early, thus not killing babies, etc).
There are other things some people believe are core which others don’t believe even exist:
* many people are happy with this ruling because they want to bring mens’ right to “paper abortion” to the front. The argument is if she can do whatever with her body and not be subject to something undesirable for nine months, than he should have the same right since his hardship can last 18 years. The supporting arguments include absolute control means absolute responsibility (if pregnancy was accidental and she decides to keep it, responsibility is hers) and others, along with the greater discussion of perceived bias in family court. Opposing arguments mostly center around the welfare of the child.
* some people are of the opinion that “if you’re not a woman, shut up”. Others are using that phrase to support their opinion on trans recognition. Still others are using that phrase to highlight situations where women have gained influence in what many men might call “mens spaces”
The reality is pregnancy is a two-party result and so it’s impossible to expect one party to quietly step aside, more so when there is skin in the game. This involvement in fact helped win R v W in the first place!
Men should have an easy opt-out of a child’s life if they don’t want to have the child, it’s ridiculous that they don’t.
I don’t think you’ll find many pro-choice people that disagree with you on that. But that unfairness doesn’t make it right to force a person to go through 9 months of pregnancy and labor.
I know what the other side’s assumptions are, I even mentioned as such in my comment. They can keep their assumptions to themselves, and use them to make decisions about their life.
But I do not see why I should care. If someone’s assumptions lead to harm for my non fetus daughter, wife, sister, or any woman, then that is all that is needed to for me to write off their point of view.
But I ruled it out confidently: The situation where a bunch of people are weighing in on a specific abortion is not one that really comes up, whereas people discuss abortion in general nonstop. You had just said that you aren't opposed to the other potential parent and medical professionals having input in a specific abortion. It doesn't make any sense to phrase that idea that way- having a functional uterus has no bearing on whether you're the one who is considering an abortion. And the other reply also interpreted you as saying men shouldn't comment on the issue and went uncorrected. Taken together, I thought there was no way that was what you meant and I was being excessively charitable.
I misunderstood, but I think you could have been clearer.
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