You see this in effect in threads about the price of Apple products. People complain about people complaining about a new smartphone being 1200$, saying it's so reasonably priced and they don't understand the complaints. You would see fewer comments like that in a forum not dominated by software developers.
I specifically mean reacting to the criticism Apple is getting. You see the same level of criticism of any major tech company in the comments section of the front page but very rarely are those criticisms followed up by a bunch of users defending the tech company in the comment section. You're arguing a weird semantic that doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm saying.
I dont think its the community. Its just that the people who read/comment on apple related articles tend to be the kind of demographic that dont value those aspects as much. They are looking for a service, not a product.
Maybe it's because we expect that our complaints to developers will be heard, but complaints to companies will fall on deaf ears. Even though the value of a company like Apple coming around to your point of view is high, the expected value of complaining is still quite low.
Actually, I think as company's get bigger, they don't hear the "I am frustrated by X", they see "ohhh we made HOW MUCH this year?"
I'm sure that Apple is peopled with nice guys and all, but seriously developers are a drop in the bucket (and thus easy to ignore). Either they stand up for themselves or they are going to keep getting abused. All the talk of how developing for Apple is sharecropping is moot because people keep developing.
Also, the "still pretty compelling for a business to hear"? If users said that to me I'd love it, because it means I got them. They're paying money for something that they actually disagree with. That says something about hitting the right pain points and such.
Apple spends money developing Xcode yet when they started charging $5 for it there was a huge outcry. I feel like HN often upvotes the most contrarian comment by default (assuming it's well argued).
Yeah, those comments calling on the hypocrisies of a crowd are really getting boring. Same thing on reddit where people call on an entire subreddit for having been wrong or having a different opinion in a different thread.
We are talking of hundreds of thousands of user, is that really surprising that we see different opinions in different threads? I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that a comment thread about Google and Android might attract an entirely different crowd than an Apple thread.
I kinda agree. Especially if there is a thread about macs, and you dare say macs are too expensive, you will get downvoted to death. It's like fanboys have arrived, and herd mentality is being prevalent. Unless the post is offensive, there is no point to downvote more than a -2, just b/c you don't agree with.
I almost ignore any comments about Apple and prices or to do with spending money. They're a business of course they're going to do that... surprisingly it leaves very little opinion about Apple if you filter those out.
You can't have a thread about Apple (or people competing with Apple) without expecting a few comments to get downvoted, it's just the nature of the audience those threads attract.
Your mistake here is thinking "people" are one coherent group when in fact what you're describing here is (probably) two different ends of a polarised discussion! You're probably in a more moderate central position (generally satisfied iphone owner). It may or may not be a good thing that apple is so controversial that they provoke such vigorous discussion (my personal take is that it is), but that not everybody is satisfied with "good enough" isn't a reason to silence discussion. Particularly when as a brand they're pitched as high end rather than just good enough.
I think true criticism is treated well (for example, discussing validity of walled garden in app store). It's the trollish comments, like calling Apple users sheep or ignorant hipsters that thrown money away, that are problematic.
A comment is in the eye of the beholder. No doubt, to an Apple fan, a pro-Apple comment on an Android thread can seem reasonable and unbiased, whilst the same comment would seem trollish to an Android fan.
When it comes down to it, most of us, regardless of the platform we individually use, can appreciate the relative pros and cons of each platform. It's just that we're not the ones commenting on articles like that, and so the dialogue gets driven by "fanboys." That ultimately results in articles like this, which is responding to the voices of a few while the silent majority of the sensible is under-represented.
I totally agree with this analogy. All of the hate in these threads is just... weird.
Maybe it's because people relate better to the developers who are losing money, than the company who is controlling it. My bet is someone with a basic understanding of business and marketing would side with Apple, and everyone else would side with the little guy, even if the little guy isn't in the right.
And, on the converse side, why is there a class of tech geek that always strongly defends Apple in the comments? No matter how strong or weak the original criticism is, the top comment basically laughs it out of the room. It is never taken seriously. Could we not equally characterize the defenses as 'public and performative' as well, and if not, why not?
In either case, I agree with you people generally have strong feelings about Apple, relative to other companies. The existence of one side brings out the other more (compared to a baseline where more people have no opinion or are neutral).
Well, yes, but also, the arguments are much shorter when we're honest.
Apple is an overpriced fashion company. Ten words or less, end of fucking argument, nothing more should have ever been considered. The entire rest of the thread brings no useful details or counterarguments. If you want practical hardware, buy it from literally any other vendor for a substantial discount and possible improvement in quality.
Okay, that was rough and brutal. I don't know if we can have discussions that are so honest! Let's go back to whining about Finder.
I think new comments do get a slight boost initially. But I also think people are venting their frustrations at the very noticeable decline in software quality from Apple over the last 3 years.
I agree with what you said, but like I said, the act of persuasion isn't merely stating facts.
Surely you can see that comments could have different moods. Some might simply be sarcastic, others cynical, or maybe people just venting at Apple for a bad experience they had with some other Apple product, etc, etc.
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