I'm really baffled at (e-)bike prices remaining so high. There's certainly not more research than what goes into cars, admittedly amortized over smaller production runs, and battery packs should (should, but don't) cost very little (at 100$/KWh, my bike's pack should be a whopping 43 bucks, let's say 100 if we include the frame mount, the lock, the wiring and the charger).
There is SO LITTLE material overall in a bike, with 99% of the tech having changed little since the '70s, so I guess it's not patents or IP either. It's not the wheels, I can buy replacements for little. It's not the shifting system, a crappy one is 100 EUR and a decent (low-end) Shimano is under 200. It's not the chain, those are 10 bucks, maybe 25 for the higher strength ones appropriate for an e-bike. It's not the motor, as I can get a conversion kit off ebay for 150-200, which includes a wheel and electronics.
Yet, 25kg of ebike costs 12% of 1000kg of a low end city car, while using 40 times less material and not having to undergo all the same rigorous testing, homologation and what else.
What am I missing? Is it all in the frame? Is it all profit? Am I looking at this from a completely wrong perspective ?
Speaking about cycling. Something I don't understand about bikes and e-bikes is their price. Why are they so incredibly expensive? How come economies of scale haven't made them dirt cheap?
I looked at ebikes a few months ago and it's still too expensive. Even the kits for converting a regular bike was almost the price of an ebike. Is it this expensive in the rest of thr world? If not, why is it so expensive here, why isn't someone just importing it and selling it for much cheaper?
I expect bike and component prices to go down with wider adoption. Especially e-bikes. I was for example surprised to see that on my kids-towing e-bike in a hilly city I have to change front-disc-brakes pads approximately every 1'000km which, at 20€ a pair of disc-brakes pads in Switzerland, translates to approximately 0.02€ per km just for braking. Which at the end of the day is not an issue for me but seems SO expensive in comparison with a car.
Many affirmations in that article are either false or ludicrous: that "e-bikes might not need braking" (!!), that gears are a problem or that tires wear out too fast; and especially this:
> The current bicycle supply chain optimizes for producing poor-quality bikes in small lots (<500). Our bikes need mass-produced automotive-grade parts that will last a lifetime instead.
That's absolutely not true. There are mass-produced bikes that are cheap and last a very long time. (Decathlon bikes for example.)
I have built a couple of e-bikes by fitting a Bafang engine on a regular bike; it's a wonderful solution, so much so that I don't use anything else (I used to ride a motorbike, but it's now rotting in my garage).
That said, the fact that e-bikes are currently too expensive is true. The Bafang solution still costs €750+, in addition to the cost of the bike itself (which may be zero if you already have a bike, or around 350-500 if not).
But the main cost is the battery; if there is a breakthrough that drives battery costs down then suddenly e-bikes will become super affordable.
Just curious: when spending that amount of money is it specific materials/features you're looking for that the lower end bikes don't have or the reputation (quality/durability/other) that makes it worthwhile to you?
I knew a few people into old school (i.e. manual drive) bikes that would pay that much for competition-grade bikes made from state of the art materials to shave every last ounce off the bike's weight. Just trying to understand what it is about the e-bikes that makes this kind of pricing worth it to enthusiasts.
Oddly e-bike prices have continued to rise without a real correction after the covid shortage constrained supply price spike, and the used market is kept from balancing it out through very high replacement battery pricing with various vendor lock in mechanisms. (eg: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1396568/average-e-bike-p...)
Wow. I'm shocked that e-bikes are expensive enough for a subsidy of that size. I'd have expected e-bikes to run $750-$2000 (dollar and Euro are close to parity).
Whenever I go looking online at e-bikes, I'm always dismayed by what seems like artificially inflated pricing. It's difficult to believe that the engineering and manufacturing of most of these bikes justifies their 100+% premium over standard bikes.
There are some very clever e-bikes, and perhaps their prices are reasonable. But there are a lot of bikes which are standard models with an added Bosch motor on the crank and a battery clipped to the frame.
On a recent trip to Holland, I saw the ALDI (a cheap grocery store selling goods from boxes) selling electric bikes for EUR 799 which is under $1100.
There's simply a huge price-range on electric bikes, and picking just one price point does not make for a convincing argument.
My e-bike, which was a little on the pricey side, cost me ~1000 USD new. 8000 USD is absurd, and over 1000 USD more than I originally paid for my current car (a 2010 VW). Hell, whenever they're on sale, VW UPs are pretty close to that price brand new.
There's nothing in this bike that makes it reasonable to price it like a small car.
There are a few things that quickly drive up ebike prices.
1) Battery size. Look at JuicedBikes' CrossCurrent S vs CrossCurrent X. While the X does have a slightly different motor, the big difference is the battery going from 614Wh to 998Wh. That 384Wh improvement is $600. Yea, part of that is probably the 750 vs 650 watt motor, but given what battery packs often cost, I'd say most of it is the batteries. We're talking around 63% more range, but it costs you.
2) Components. Low-end (but still reasonable) ebikes tend to use Shimano Altus/Acera components which are what you'd find in a $500 Trek/Specialized/Fuji. Higher-end bikes often upgrade to Alivio/Sora/Deore components. Likewise, hydraulic brakes might be an upgraded component.
3) Mid-Drive vs hub motors. Cheaper ebikes often use hub motors in the rear wheel. They're often a bit easier to do and cheaper than mid-drive models. Mid-drive motors can be nice because the motor can take advantage of the gearing as you shift and seem to be a bit more efficient (better range for the battery size).
For example, a RadCity goes for $1,500 while the Yamaha CrossCore is $2,400. The Yamaha has Sora components rather than Altus, hydraulic brakes, a mid-drive motor, better range, better pedal sensing (the RadCity doesn't have a torque sensor), considerably lighter weight (43.5lbs vs 63lbs which is a huge difference). The non-electric part alone might be $300 of the difference.
Ultimately, what's the difference between a Honda Civic and an Acura ILX? The Acura is a third more expensive.
I don't want it to seem like I'm disparaging the RadCity. There are certainly cheap/crappy ebikes out there and I don't think Rad Power is making cheap/crappy bikes. There are definitely ebikes out there that come with really small batteries and a poor motors and some really low-end parts. Those aren't really worth looking at. However, I think the RadCity is a good example of the best bike at $1,500 and I think the Yamaha is a good example of a great, affordable mid-drive bike. You get better range, significantly lower weight, better pedal sensing, better breaks, better derailleur, better shifters, 3-year vs 1-year warranty, top torque of 70 newton meters vs 40nm from the motor, etc.
I think there are certainly upgrades that both cost money and can be worth the money. However, I think there are cheaper bikes that certainly have some good points.
The bike is a 200 year old invention, these people really are fooling consumers into thinking they have re-invented the wheel.
Some e-bikes go for 20,000$, that's the same price of a new Ducati Panigale which has 400 lbs of material in it, including a 220hp motor which rotates at 17000rpm.
It's either a scam or poor engineering, some people claim that the pricy e-bikes have 'a lot of carbon fiber on them' , but centuries of work showed that if you are struggling to propel yourself forward the low hanging fruit is a more powerful motor which is way more helpful than lowering the weight by half an ounce at the price of hundreds of dollars of carbon fiber.
I wonder what the batteries are going to be like in the used market. afaik this is the first part to see significant wear and also probably the most expensive part on the bike. Every few years I price out ebike kit builds to see if prices have come down and battery costs have remained pretty high. At least with a regular bike you can buy it in whatever neglected condition short of a compromised frame and pay not much at all at your local bike shop to tune it up into a great bike.
There is SO LITTLE material overall in a bike, with 99% of the tech having changed little since the '70s, so I guess it's not patents or IP either. It's not the wheels, I can buy replacements for little. It's not the shifting system, a crappy one is 100 EUR and a decent (low-end) Shimano is under 200. It's not the chain, those are 10 bucks, maybe 25 for the higher strength ones appropriate for an e-bike. It's not the motor, as I can get a conversion kit off ebay for 150-200, which includes a wheel and electronics.
Yet, 25kg of ebike costs 12% of 1000kg of a low end city car, while using 40 times less material and not having to undergo all the same rigorous testing, homologation and what else.
What am I missing? Is it all in the frame? Is it all profit? Am I looking at this from a completely wrong perspective ?
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